What are people supposed to do if they get seriously ill?

[bencg]

Really? You can't walk into a hospital if you get a cut and need stitches?

You are conflating health care with health insurance. They are not the same thing. I'm surprised that you never once used the word.

What you cannot do is get treatment for long term life threatening conditions like cancer. What should someone who is poor and unable to get insurance do?

 

[bencg]

The UK has a National Health Service and I suppose once you present to Accidents and Emergencies you will accepted into the health system for treatment.

Or present to a GP. UK citizens get full coverage for all problems no questions asked. Dental and prescription charges are means tested (people on benefits get them free IIRC) but capped for all at a relatively low price.

Amazingly this costs less per person than US citizens pay just for medicare and medicaid alone. Go figure.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Republican plan is to

1. Get wealthy
2. Stay wealthy
3. Now you can afford health insurance
4. If you can't do 1 or 2, too bad so sad.

 

[Travis]

Well considering that they will only provide emergent care, you need medical insurance.

Travis, can you get group coverage through an employer, I have five strikes now, HBP, sleep apnea, major depression, hyperlipedmia and melanoma (removed).

No. Actually I was turned down for a job recently because they didn't want me on their health insurance program. Otherwise I was qualified.

It is hardly "mischaracterizing" it. It might be some imprecise language, but not an attempt to mischaracterize the situation. I'm sure Travis will step in to clarify, if that is absolutely necessary, but I can hardly see where the confusion comes from.

You need a very large bank account, or health insurance to pay for cancer treatment. Since an extremely small percentage of Americans have a bank account sufficient to deal with a serious cancer diagnosis, and a significant percentage do not have health insurance, what would be the best option for them?

Daredelvis

That. Emergency health care is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something like renal failure or some type of fatal but treatable cancer.

I broke a patella (knee-cap) when I was without health insurance. I had surgery at Harbor-UCLA hospital, and I wasn't required to pay for anything. The Los Angeles County hospital works on an "ability to pay" system, and I had very low income at that time.

We do not have a public hospital. It was closed down in 2006 to make way for tax cuts. All we have now is a private hospital that refuses to treat anyone that owes them money for previous visits (outside of the immediate emergency stuff).

I don't think the military is going to take you if you're that sick.

Prison will though.

Yes I was turned down for enlistment out of high school.

What you cannot do is get treatment for long term life threatening conditions like cancer. What should someone who is poor and unable to get insurance do?

This is the issue. A private hospital is not obligated to treat me if I had cancer.


So as of right now my options are: suicide, prison or go home to die a slow death. How is a single payer system not superior to this?

 

[plumjam]

The decent choice for poor, blue collar, and many middle class Americans would be for them to selflessly die for their country.

Anything else would be unpatriotic*.









* unprofitable for society's owners.

 

[The Kilted Yaksman]

get sent to prison and receive free health care.

or enlist in the military, and receive free health care.

...or get elected to Congress.

 

[johnny karate]

For example.

Yeah, except that once the individual mandate goes into effect that will be a moot issue, and therefore not affecting the efficacy of the law.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yeah, except that once the individual mandate goes into effect that will be a moot issue, and therefore not affecting the efficacy of the law.

That's IF it goes into effect, and no, I don't think it will be moot. Regardless, it's already not working out as intended.

 

[johnny karate]

That's IF it goes into effect, and no, I don't think it will be moot.

Yeah, it will be moot.

From the first link here (a direct link takes you to the New York Times sign-in page):

The difficulty in preserving access to child-only insurance policies is the latest example of unintended consequences of the new law, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The problem may be solved in 2014. If Democrats can beat back Republican efforts to dismantle the law, most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, starting in 2014, and insurers will be required to accept all applicants, regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Regardless, it's already not working out as intended.

But it will once the entire law goes into effect. You can't say the law won't work as intended because of a short-term loophole that will be eventually closed.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

I don't think the military is going to take you if you're that sick.

Prison will though.

Chances are, however, that going to prison would probably result in more problems for your health than benefits.

 

[eeyore1954]

Are you from California I would have thought they had good programs for lower income or special situations. Is your income to high?
I don't know if it is legal to be refused employement for that reason. Ask an attorney.
If you try to get a job with a larger company they will not turn you down for health insurance if you qualify otherwise.
Your parents should have to be financially responsible for your health care if you are an adult.
I have helped people with little or no income get help.
A friend suffered from depression, she was able to go onto disability, when she broke her leg all expenses were paid including a bus to pick her up for therapy. brother in law had a 45,000 stay in the hospital for heart problems at the time he had no money and no insurance so he did not have to pay
Another friend got diabetes and suffered kidney failure at a young age (50). He is now waiting for a transplant. He has no money but I believe he is on medicare and his concern is not how will he pay for a transplant but how long the waiting list is. I didn't help him though.

I know so many people who have no money but were able to get health care for free. I have never know or heard of an aquaintance who knew someone who could not get health care. The people who maybe suffer are middle class people who have insurance but when they get the flue they do go because of a 35 dollar co pay

 

[theprestige]

In my own case* there is no way I would be able to afford major things like an organ transplant or most cancer treatments. So if I got something that would require either I would be up a creek. I also know my parents who would probably insist on selling their houses to pay for it and I would hate for them to do that. As such I would probably end myself to spare them that.

The way I see it, you have a couple of options: One is, when the resources necessary to sustain your life exceed the resources available to you, you die.

Oh, wait. That's pretty much the only option that any of us have.

Even universal health care only goes so far. Sooner or later you'll reach a point where no amount of my tax dollars, and no amount of government deficit, can sustain your life.

Me? I'm still eligible for health insurance, so I guess I'm a little luckier than you. Not in the long run, but still. You can tax me a little extra if you like. We'll call it "theprestige's good luck tax", and I sincerely hope it gives you some peace of mind.

But even me, I look into the future, and I see old age, decrepitude, and death. I see my resources running out, my insurance only going so far, and my fellow citizens only having so much I can tax them out of.

When I need an organ or a cancer treatment I can't afford, I'll probably die. And, knowing me, I'll probably die a hypocrite, kicking and screaming and crying and begrudging you every cent that didn't end up in my doctor's bank account, and begrudging the government every aircraft carrier that wasn't another round of chemo for my failing body.

Anyway, my point is, universal health care isn't a fairy godmother. It's resources transferred from one thing to another. And resources are limited. If people get seriously ill, they're supposed to suffer and die. The only real debate at this point is what counts as "seriously ill", and how much resources we're each entitled to along the way.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

You seem to be under the misconception that insurance would change the situation. At my workplace, three people have had major medical incidents. They all had insurance, but still had to pay 50-60%. Big bucks.

 

[BobTheCoward]

What is the point of this?

What happens when good A requires resources that are not provided by you or another party?

Then you don't get good A

 

[Travis]

Are you from California I would have thought they had good programs for lower income or special situations. Is your income to high?
I don't know if it is legal to be refused employement for that reason. Ask an attorney.
If you try to get a job with a larger company they will not turn you down for health insurance if you qualify otherwise.
Your parents should have to be financially responsible for your health care if you are an adult.
I have helped people with little or no income get help.
A friend suffered from depression, she was able to go onto disability, when she broke her leg all expenses were paid including a bus to pick her up for therapy. brother in law had a 45,000 stay in the hospital for heart problems at the time he had no money and no insurance so he did not have to pay
Another friend got diabetes and suffered kidney failure at a young age (50). He is now waiting for a transplant. He has no money but I believe he is on medicare and his concern is not how will he pay for a transplant but how long the waiting list is. I didn't help him though.

I know so many people who have no money but were able to get health care for free. I have never know or heard of an aquaintance who knew someone who could not get health care. The people who maybe suffer are middle class people who have insurance but when they get the flue they do go because of a 35 dollar co pay

In California you can only get on the system if you have a disability or are a poor child.

The way I see it, you have a couple of options: One is, when the resources necessary to sustain your life exceed the resources available to you, you die.

Oh, wait. That's pretty much the only option that any of us have.

Even universal health care only goes so far. Sooner or later you'll reach a point where no amount of my tax dollars, and no amount of government deficit, can sustain your life.

Me? I'm still eligible for health insurance, so I guess I'm a little luckier than you. Not in the long run, but still. You can tax me a little extra if you like. We'll call it "theprestige's good luck tax", and I sincerely hope it gives you some peace of mind.

But even me, I look into the future, and I see old age, decrepitude, and death. I see my resources running out, my insurance only going so far, and my fellow citizens only having so much I can tax them out of.

When I need an organ or a cancer treatment I can't afford, I'll probably die. And, knowing me, I'll probably die a hypocrite, kicking and screaming and crying and begrudging you every cent that didn't end up in my doctor's bank account, and begrudging the government every aircraft carrier that wasn't another round of chemo for my failing body.

Anyway, my point is, universal health care isn't a fairy godmother. It's resources transferred from one thing to another. And resources are limited. If people get seriously ill, they're supposed to suffer and die. The only real debate at this point is what counts as "seriously ill", and how much resources we're each entitled to along the way.

So much for the progress of civilization. So if someone gets lung cancer, treatable if caught early but fatal if not treated at all, and they can't afford the treatment themselves they are just supposed to suffer and die? That's preferable to pooling resources from the larger society?

 

[johnny karate]

If people get seriously ill, they're supposed to suffer and die.

A particularly silly thing to say among so much other silliness.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

So much for the progress of civilization. So if someone gets lung cancer, treatable if caught early but fatal if not treated at all, and they can't afford the treatment themselves they are just supposed to suffer and die? That's preferable to pooling resources from the larger society?

I suggest exploring the possibility of emigrating to a country like Canada, the UK, Australia or New Zealand. We won't let you die of a treatable disorder to save a few bucks.

(It could be a new slogan for the tourist trade. "Australia: Now preferable to prison!").

 

[Travis]

I can't figure out why there is so much resistance to it where I live now. Has treating people with serious illnesses really done any country with universal coverage any harm?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

In my own case* there is no way I would be able to afford major things like an organ transplant or most cancer treatments. So if I got something that would require either I would be up a creek. I also know my parents who would probably insist on selling their houses to pay for it and I would hate for them to do that. As such I would probably end myself to spare them that.

Other people might not go down that path. So what really, if there is to never be any health care reform, are such people supposed to do? Does anyone have a plan? Or is the plan to just let such people die?


*Remember that I'm excluded from health care because of my medical history. Unless I want to pay as much every month as I would for a house mortgage there are no health care plans for me.

As it is, usually a person in that situation would qualify for Medicaid. Of course, eligibility varies from state to state.

Also, under the new law, you can no longer be excluded from being covered because of a pre-existing condition.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Republican plan is to

1. Get wealthy
2. Stay wealthy
3. Now you can afford health insurance
4. If you can't do 1 or 2, too bad so sad.

Or live in a state where there are other options. (The GOP is big on leaving healthcare issues to the states.)

I assume they also have no problem with your care being provided or paid for with taxpayer money as long as it's done by a faith-based institution.