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WalpinGate

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
He even said that had the statute of limitations not expired he would have personally charged Clinton with the rape of Juanita Broaddrick and investigated the deaths of Foster and Brown.

Wow, I didn't know there was a statute of limitations on murder.

Sorry if I was unclear. He said that had the statute of limitations not run out on the rape of Broaddrick, he would have charged Clinton with that crime. As to the deaths of Foster and Brown, he said that had he been allowed to do so by Congress, he would have investigated those matters and included them in the impeachment trial. :)
 
:rolleyes:
Oh I take the issue very seriously, lr. Otherwise, I wouldn't have raised it and said I think it's serious. Can't you tell that from the content of my posts?
What I can tell from the content of your posts is that you love the prospect of a Democrat getting caught doing something wrong much much more than you hate the prospect of an elected official violating the law. To me, that's a messed up set of priorities, and, no, it doesn't qualify as "taking it seriously" in my book.
Are you really so desperate to avoid discussing the substance of the complaints that the only remark you can make is about my spicing my comments with an occasional :D face?
No.
Surely you understand the reason I add them in the locations I do? Or are you simply obtuse to that, too? :D
I'm pretty sure I understand the reason you add them in the locations you do. Because it doesn't bother you that the president of the United States is breaking the law (assuming he is), but rather, it makes you happy that he might get caught breaking the law. To me, that's a messed up set of priorities, and doesn't qualify as "taking it seriously" in my book.

Why not? Did the IG get 30 days notice before he was told he'd be fired?
I don't know.
Was the IG provided with cause for the firing when the IG was first told to either resign or be fired?
I don't know.
Apparently not, so I don't see how it's in doubt that either the President or someone in his administration broke the law
It's apparent to you. I looked through the sources in your OP (the two real sources, I mean, not the Republican and right-wing organs), and all I see are accusations. I'm not saying he is or he isn't because I don't have the information. I just have accusations.
(the law that Obama co-sponsored and has those two requirements). :D
You keep mentioning this as if it's relevant. Legally, is someone more subject to a law if he co-sponsored it than if he didn't? Of course not. Oh, but that's right - you don't care about the law - it's not relevant legally, but it's relevant in the world of partisan hackery, because it allows you to tally up another point on your scoreboard or whatever you have going on.


ETA:
This is perfect:
Redtail said:
Ahhhhh... I see. The "your side" remarks tell it all. You're incapable of understanding that there are people who don't have an /s like (as in D/s) devotion to a political party.
I actually wanted to quote in really big letters, but I hate it when people use really big letters, so I won't.
 
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What I can tell from the content of your posts is that you love the prospect of a Democrat getting caught doing something wrong much much more than you hate the prospect of an elected official violating the law.

No, lr, you cannot tell that from the content of my posts. And one reason you can't tell that is that you'll find me very upset when a republican has verifiably violated the law. Tell me, how many websites have you been thrown off for insisting that one party or the other uphold the law? I was thrown off Free Republic for insisting that Republicans uphold the law and saying they would be complicit in violating the law if they did not. Believe me, I have my priorities right. And I seem to be the only one here who is at all concerned about Obama doing what Clinton did.

Quote:
Are you really so desperate to avoid discussing the substance of the complaints that the only remark you can make is about my spicing my comments with an occasional face?

No.

And yet, you haven't discussed the substance of the complaints on this thread ... even once. :D (do you understand why I grinned?)

Quote:
Why not? Did the IG get 30 days notice before he was told he'd be fired?

I don't know.

So you are complaining about my use of grins when you don't even know the basic facts in the case? Amazing. :D

Quote:
Was the IG provided with cause for the firing when the IG was first told to either resign or be fired?

I don't know.

Simply amazing. :D

Quote:
(the law that Obama co-sponsored and has those two requirements).

You keep mentioning this as if it's relevant. Legally, is someone more subject to a law if he co-sponsored it than if he didn't?

Well, in that case, you'd think he'd then at least be aware of the law. Afterall, this Mr Obama is supposed to be soooooo smart. :D (That one is just to annoy you for trying to make this thread about me rather than the OP. Seems red herrings and adhominems are all you have. :D)
 
Walpingate? That's the worst use of the -gate suffix I've ever heard.

Try harder.
 
Michael Mukasey, Bernard Nussbaum, and 145 others vouch for Mr Walpin in this letter to the Senate:

http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2009/06/24/descriptionwalpin.pdf

We have never seen Mr. Walpin to be "confused, disoriented [or] unable to answer questions. While none of us was present at the meeting referred to in Mr. Eisen's letter, we can report only that such an allegation is totally inconsistent with our personal knowledge of Mr. Walpin who has always, through the present day, exhibited a quick mind and a command of the facts (whether we agree with him or not) and eloguence - essentially the opposite of someone who is "confused, disoriented, unable to answer questions.

We note that the signers of this letter include both Republicans and Democrats, voters for President Obama and Senator McCain, and many who do not agree with Mr Walpin's personal political views. But all of us are unanimous in affirming Mr. Walpin's integrity and competence.
 
No, lr, you cannot tell that from the content of my posts. And one reason you can't tell that is that you'll find me very upset when a republican has verifiably violated the law. Tell me, how many websites have you been thrown off for insisting that one party or the other uphold the law? I was thrown off Free Republic for insisting that Republicans uphold the law and saying they would be complicit in violating the law if they did not. Believe me, I have my priorities right. And I seem to be the only one here who is at all concerned about Obama doing what Clinton did.
Yeah, :D, you seem :D really really "concerned" :D :D :D

And yet, you haven't discussed the substance of the complaints on this thread ... even once. :D (do you understand why I grinned?)
No.

So you are complaining about my use of grins when you don't even know the basic facts in the case? Amazing. :D

Simply amazing. :D
The difference between you and me is not that you know the basic facts in the case and I don't. The difference is you think you know, while I recognize that I don't.

Well, in that case, you'd think he'd then at least be aware of the law. Afterall, this Mr Obama is supposed to be soooooo smart. :D
Who cares? Other than willful failure to pay taxes, is there any area where knowing what the law says has anything to do with whether you are culpable for violating it?
(That one is just to annoy you for trying to make this thread about me rather than the OP. Seems red herrings and adhominems are all you have. :D)

I'd like you to point out where I committed the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem.
 
You want a more reliable source that the law was violated, lr? Here:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...e-questions-about-Walpin-firing-48154927.html

Rep. Darrell Issa, ranking Republican on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, has sent a letter to White House counsel Gregory Craig asking for information regarding the firing of AmeriCorps inspector general Gerald Walpin.

... snip ...

The full letter:

Dear Mr. Craig:



I am writing to express my concern that provisions of the Inspector General Act of 1978 (IG Act) may have been violated when Gerald Walpin was removed from his post as Inspector General at the Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS). As you know, Mr. Walpin received notice of his dismissal by the President on June 10. The Inspector General Reform Act of 2008 (IG Reform Act), which President Obama co-sponsored last year as a Member of the Senate, amended the IG Act by requiring the President to give Congress 30 days notice before dismissing an IG. The IG Reform Act also requires the President to provide Congress an explanation of why such action is necessary.



The Committee's investigation into this matter revealed Mr. Walpin was pressured by White House staff to resign in an apparent attempt to circumvent the requirements of the IG Act as amended. Mr. Walpin was contacted by phone and presented with the choice to resign or be terminated. Mr. Walpin asked for time to consider his options, and was afforded one hour. Forty-five minutes later, he received another phone call asking for his decision. Mr. Walpin declined to tender his resignation. The next day, Mr. Walpin was placed on administrative leave and informed he is not permitted to return to the Office of the Inspector General.



Section 3 of the IG Reform Act requires the President to notify Congress in writing at least 30 days before removing or transferring an IG. This provision strengthens the IG Act, which previously only required the President to notify Congress of the reasons for such action. The IG Reform Act leaves that requirement intact.

In an effort to comply with these requirements, the White House sent a letter to House and Senate leadership on June 11 providing notice to Congress that Mr. Walpin will be removed as IG, effective 30 days from the letter's date. The letter provides an insufficiently vague explanation of the reasons for this action:

It is vital that I have the fullest confidence in the appointees serving as Inspectors General. That is no longer the case with regard to this Inspector General.


It is my conclusion that the immediate effective termination of Mr. Walpin and the vague explanation offered by the President as the reason for his decision are inadequate under the IG Act.



To ensure the independence and objectivity of IGs, Congress used the Inspector General Act to require the President appoint Inspectors General "without regard to political affiliation" and "solely on the basis of integrity and demonstrated ability." Because of the President's failure to enunciate his rationale for removing Mr. Walpin in accordance with the IG Act, interested observers have been forced to search for an explanation in publicly-available material. Predictably, this has led to speculation that the removal of Mr. Walpin was politically motivated -- a retaliation for activities within the scope of Mr. Walpin's work as Inspector General. There is also the appearance that Mr. Walpin's removal is intended to allow the Administration to exert greater influence over CNCS through personnel with ties to the White House.



In order to dispel allegations that the removal of Mr. Walpin was the product of any inappropriate political motivation, please provide responses to the following by June 26:

1. A full and complete explanation of the White House's reason for terminating Mr. Walpin;



2. A full and complete explanation of whom the White House consulted in order to evaluate the performance of Mr. Walpin;



3. Given the White House considered Mr. Walpin's conduct as CNCS IG so unprofessional as to warrant his removal, please provide a full and complete explanation of why the White House gave him the option of resigning; and,



4. A full and complete explanation of why the White House decided to effectuate Mr. Walpin's removal through an ultimatum delivered over the phone.

During the President's term in the Senate, Congress expended a remarkable amount of energy and effort to scrutinize the dismissal of nine United States Attorneys by President Bush. That investigation is entering its third year and required the White House's involvement as recently as March. The investigation's purpose is to explore the possibility that the firings were improper because they were politically motivated. The removal of Mr. Walpin raises the same concerns. In order to clarify the role of the Department of Justice (DOJ) in what may have been a political action, please provide the following:

5. All e-mail and other communications between the White House Counsel's office and the DOJ's Criminal Division regarding Mr. Walpin;



6. All e-mail and other communications between the White House Counsel's office and the United States Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of California regarding Mr. Walpin;



7. All e-mail and other communications between the White House Counsel's office and any other DOJ official regarding Mr. Walpin;



8. A full and complete explanation of White House policy applicable to communication with DOJ regarding Inspectors General or any other politically appointed individuals; and,



9. If the White House had discussions with DOJ regarding Mr. Walpin, a full and complete explanation of whether these were conducted in a manner consistent with White House policies.

Providing material responsive to the above requests will represent an affirmative step toward fulfilling the President's commitment to create "an unprecedented level of openness in government." 

As Ranking Member of the House's main investigative Committee with direct responsibility for oversight of all Inspectors General, I look forward to working with the White House to ensure Inspectors General are allowed to conduct their important function in accordance with the protections of the IG Act as amended.

Sincerely,
Darrell Issa

I wonder if the White House will comply by the 26th or just stonewall like the Clinton adminstration did on many occasions? :D
 
The plot thickens ...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...s-if-IG-investigation-continued-48998746.html

AmeriCorps feared bad press if IG investigation continued

By: BYRON YORK


06/24/09

One of the mysteries surrounding President Obama's firing of AmeriCorps inspector general Gerald Walpin is what prompted the White House, supported by the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, which oversees AmeriCorps, to try to get rid of Walpin so quickly and quietly?

... snip ...

Why the rush? Walpin had certainly displeased the board by his aggressive investigation into the misuse of AmeriCorps funds by Kevin Johnson, the former NBA star who is now mayor of Sacramento, California and a prominent supporter of President Obama. Prior to his election as mayor, Johnson ran an educational organization called St. HOPE, which received $850,000 in AmeriCorps money. Walpin discovered that Johnson and St. HOPE had failed to use the federal money for the purposes specified in the grant and had also used federally-funded AmeriCorps staff for, among other things, "driving [Johnson] to personal appointments, washing his car, and running personal errands." 



Walpin recommended that Johnson be banned from ever receiving any more federal funds. But after the passage of the $787 billion stimulus bill, amid worries that such a ban on the mayor would keep Sacramento from receiving its share of the stimulus cash, the board of the Corporation for National and Community Service reached an agreement with the acting U.S. attorney in Sacramento under which Johnson would repay some of the mis-spent money and also be eligible to receive new federal grants in the future. Walpin strongly objected to the agreement. (Knowing his opposition, the board excluded him from the negotiations.)

Walpin's objections were the subject of a now-controversial May 20 meeting in which Walpin, to use his term, "lectured" the board on what he believed was its mistake in approving the Johnson settlement. On the morning of the meeting, the Sacramento Bee reported that a man named Rick Maya, who worked with Kevin Johnson in the St. HOPE project, claimed that Johnson's emails had been deleted during the time of Walpin's investigation. The Maya news suggested that there might have been obstruction of justice in the St. HOPE affair, and Walpin used it to drive home his point that the board should have let his investigation stand.

It appears the discussion of the St. HOPE matter was a turning point not only in the May 20 meeting but in Walpin's tenure at the Corporation. In a recent interview, a Republican member of the Corporation board told me that Walpin told board members at the meeting that he wanted to issue some sort of public statement to the effect that there should be more investigation of the St. HOPE matter. "He said, 'I feel so strongly about this that today I am going to issue a statement to the press calling for further investigation,'" the member said, recalling Walpin's words. "The board members all caught that. Several of us wrote down that he was going to be issuing a statement to the press that afternoon."



It was a distressing scenario for the board. As a favorite program of Barack and Michelle Obama, AmeriCorps was enjoying a higher profile than ever before. The Corporation also stood to receive vast amounts of new funding from the $5.7 billion Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, which would triple the size of AmeriCorps. And in the midst of that, here was the agency's inspector general saying he might re-open an investigation into an embarrassing episode involving hundreds of thousands of mis-spent dollars and a politically prominent supporter of the president.
 
30 days notice:
In an effort to comply with these requirements, the White House sent a letter to House and Senate leadership on June 11 providing notice to Congress that Mr. Walpin will be removed as IG, effective 30 days from the letter's date.
Cause:
It is vital that I have the fullest confidence in the appointees serving as Inspectors General. That is no longer the case with regard to this Inspector General.

So, yeah, I'm not convinced. It's bad enough that questions should be asked, and answered. It may be bad enough that it should go to court. But it's not bad enough for me, on the information you've shown me, to say, yes, the president broke the law.

If the president doesn't have confidence in an IG, is that "cause" for firing or not? I'm not saying it is, but without more information, I don't think it's responsible to say that it isn't, as if that were some established legal principle.

Obviously Darrell Issa isn't satisfied. Maybe he's unsatisfied because he's a Republican. Hopefully he's unsatisfied because of his role on the Committee he's on. Probably a mixture of both. But when Issa says
It is my conclusion that the immediate effective termination of Mr. Walpin and the vague explanation offered by the President as the reason for his decision are inadequate under the IG Act.
I have to point out that he's not a judge or jury, and that his conclusion, by itself, is not enough to convince me. I'm glad he's asking questions, and I hope his questions get answered. And he, and you, may turn out to be right. But it is too soon to say.

PS Why is it that you're comparing Obama's behavior to Clinton's, when, as Rep. Issa is aware, it is the comparison to Bush that makes more sense?
The Walpin firing, Issa continues, raises the "same concerns" as those surrounding President Bush's decision to fire several U.S. attorneys.
Oh wait, I forgot, you got kicked off of Free Republic, so I'm supposed to ignore your partisan hackery.
 
Wow, BAC was too out there for Freep? Do tell, linusrichard.
I don't know the details - see post #44, this thread.

It's kind of hard to believe, because on the rare occasion I stray over there, I see people attacking Republicans all the time.

Maybe it's because BAC was insisting Republicans be held accountable, rather than criticizing Republicans for not hating Mexicans enough, which I think is sort of par for the Freeper course.
 
30 days notice:

Quote:
In an effort to comply with these requirements, the White House sent a letter to House and Senate leadership on June 11 providing notice to Congress that Mr. Walpin will be removed as IG, effective 30 days from the letter's date.

Cause:

Quote:
It is vital that I have the fullest confidence in the appointees serving as Inspectors General. That is no longer the case with regard to this Inspector General.

So, yeah, I'm not convinced.

Thanks, lr, for demonstrating your own "partisan hackery". Anyone can see that you went far out of your way to make it appear that the Obama administration didn't initially try to fire Walpin without 30 days notice but complied with the law. And if you really think that is adequate cause than ANY ONE can be fired ANY TIME for ANY REASON by a President. Is that really what you want because remember, democrats aren't going to always own the Whitehouse. :D

PS Why is it that you're comparing Obama's behavior to Clinton's, when, as Rep. Issa is aware, it is the comparison to Bush that makes more sense?

Quote:
The Walpin firing, Issa continues, raises the "same concerns" as those surrounding President Bush's decision to fire several U.S. attorneys.

Issa is simply being careful. Until his questions are answered he won't know whether there's more to this than a comparison to Bush's firing of several US attorneys. But I don't have to be as careful. I can call things as I see them, and what I see is something more similar to what Clinton and Hillary tried to do with the Whitehouse Travel office. Obama's actions were a naked power grab ... pure and simple.
 
Maybe it's because BAC was insisting Republicans be held accountable, rather than criticizing Republicans for not hating Mexicans enough

Excuse me. Did you just accuse me of insisting republican be held accountable for not hating Mexicans enough? Or did I misunderstand?
 
Thanks, lr, for demonstrating your own "partisan hackery". Anyone can see that you went far out of your way to make it appear that the Obama administration didn't initially try to fire Walpin without 30 days notice but complied with the law.
Hey man, I just quoted your source. Sent a letter to the Congress, this guy is fired as of 30 days from today. Your source. As far as "initially try," what's the point of that?
And if you really think that is adequate cause than ANY ONE can be fired ANY TIME for ANY REASON by a President. Is that really what you want because remember, democrats aren't going to always own the Whitehouse. :D
It's not about what I want, it's about what the law is. Is "I don't have confidence in this IG" adequate cause, as a matter of law, or isn't it? Not being lawyers or judges, I submit that you and I don't know. You seem to think I'm assuming it is adequate cause, which I'm not doing. You seem to be assuming it is not adequate cause; please correct me if I'm misinterpreting.
Issa is simply being careful.
What a concept.
Until his questions are answered he won't know whether there's more to this than a comparison to Bush's firing of several US attorneys. But I don't have to be as careful. I can call things as I see them, and what I see is something more similar to what Clinton and Hillary tried to do with the Whitehouse Travel office. Obama's actions were a naked power grab ... pure and simple.
On that last point I will provisionally agree with you. The question is, was it an unlawful power grab?
 
Excuse me. Did you just accuse me of insisting republican be held accountable for not hating Mexicans enough? Or did I misunderstand?

No, you misunderstood; sorry if the misunderstanding was my fault.

I was saying that I see people criticize Republicans on Freep, but you got kicked off of Freep for criticizing Republicans, so that seemed weird. And then I said maybe they kicked you off of Freep for insisting Republicans be held accountable, whereas maybe they don't normally kick people who criticize Republicans off of Freep because normally Freepers who criticize Republicans are criticizing them for, e.g., not hating Mexicans enough.

It was more of a swipe at Free Republic than anything, and not a swipe at you - a compliment, in fact.
 
Anyone can see that you went far out of your way to make it appear that the Obama administration didn't initially try to fire Walpin without 30 days notice but complied with the law.
What law says that the President cannot threaten to fire an IG?

As I said, it's his right and duty to fire IGs. It's of course also his right and duty to threaten to fire IGs who are not performing.

Now, you may not agree with the allegations against Walpin that he's a racist-promoting hyper-Republican attack dog who abused his title for political gains and who tried to hide politically inconvenient facts in an investigation. Doesn't matter. It's not your judgement that matters, it's the Presidents. He just has to give his motivation to Congress, which he did. The President has a lot of power, and if you don't agree with the President, you're going to dislike some of his decisions. Get over it.
 

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