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Wages For Housework

Brainster

Penultimate Amazing
Brainster
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May 26, 2006
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Couldn't find anything on this particular topic in the politics group, so here goes. The New Republic runs a piece on the campaign for wages for housework:

The first time I taught Silvia Federici’s 1975 manifesto, “Wages Against Housework,” was during the pandemic. Federici proposes that housework—cooking and cleaning, taking care of children, spouses, the sick, and the elderly—should be compensated by the government. Most of my students, who were first-year undergraduates, Zoomed into class from their childhood bedrooms. It was a moment in the pandemic when parents of younger children were with them 24/7, and it seemed as if everyone was either sick or caring for someone who was sick. The time-consuming nature of this work, as well as its physical, emotional, and financial strains, was often in the news.
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The writer was dismayed that despite the backdrop of Covid, the students expressed some skepticism about the idea. That said, their "skepticism" is not mine:

Wouldn’t paying for it result in women doing even more housework, and perhaps having more children than they wanted? Wouldn’t it push women out of the workplace?
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My skepticism has more to do with "who's going to pay for it, and how much?" The answer is right up front: compensated by the government, which is why I placed this is politics and not social issues. It should be obvious that this is a crazy idea. Is the government just going to pay housewives a stipend for cleaning the house and doing the laundry? What about people who live on their own--surely they should be paid as well for cleaning up their homes?

The writer doesn't touch on this, instead she dwells on the concept of the newly-paid housework force flexing their union muscles

By making the labor of housework visible as labor, wages would enable those who performed it to organize for better working conditions.
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And in the end she reveals her true objective:

Finally, wages for housework would be a crucial tool in establishing solidarity between women, and in bringing down global capitalism.
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To me, sharing the housework is definitely part of the bargain between husband and wife and unlike years ago, there is no automatic assumption that it's the responsibility of the woman. And single, working people have housework to do; should they be compensated? I suspect that this was pushed by feminists back in the 1970s-1980s as a way to try to get housewives on their side, but it strikes me as stale, and I was surprised to see it printed in the New Republic. And "bringing down global capitalism" drew a horselaugh.
 
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There is a more fundamental question on what work is worth, not what someone is willing to pay for someone doing it.
With very few exceptions (doctors), salary is inversely correlated with how much good the work does.
Healthcare, sanitation, cleaning, childcare, education, construction, food and hospitality industry, logistics, science are all essential, and yet usually pays very little.

And on the other side of the coin, it seems that the managerial class is paid exorbitantly exactly for the reason to distract from the fact that, by and large, their work is at best busywork and usually outright harmful.

Capitalism is actively working against rewarding human labor correctly.
 
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Agree with Brainster: housework is shared and just the stuff you do to stay alive. Who's paying the person living alone? Ms Thermal and I both work, and if not evenly split, I might do a little more. Do we both get checks from someone else? Do we pay each other? It's ridiculous. Although an debate about paying for sex logically follows from a posit of paying for what you kind do anyway. "That's different", the article author would say.
 
My wife has serious mobility limitations. As I am responsible for all the housework as part of my caring for her our provincial government has a program that pays me $400/month. Not much, but for retired people on limited income it makes a big difference.
 
Brainster said:
To me, sharing the housework is definitely part of the bargain between husband and wife and unlike years ago, there is no automatic assumption that it's the responsibility of the woman.
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Some might disagree.

Being a homemaker, in my opinion, is a great privilege. A homemaker is someone who makes a home and as women of God, I believe we are all called to homemakers. That’s why today I’m sharing a few thoughts on what it means to be a Christian homemaker. Learning how to be a good homemaker takes time and practice, but it is possible!

I’ve almost always been a stay-at-home mom and I feel so blessed to have been able to stay home with my children. But whether you stay at home full time or work outside the home, homemaking is important work. And while I have been a stay at home mom, I am also a work at home mom and I understand what it’s like to struggle to manage a home while juggling homeschooling and a business.
She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.” Proverbs 31:27
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Christian Homemaking​

Homemaking is about more than just cleaning a house. It’s about making a home where the people who live there feel warm, loved, and safe to be themselves. Each member of your family needs room to learn and grow in Christ.

I’ve been a homemaker for over two decades now. That’s a long time! I didn’t always enjoy my role as a homemaker and honestly – there are times it still feels tedious!

But over the years I’ve come to realize that homemaking is just as important as any other type of ministry because as the wife and mother – the way our family feels at home speaks volumes about how we minister to their needs.
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shemp said:
I'm opposed to this. I think it would be better to drop money from helicopters and airplanes. But not paper money. Huge sacks of coins! They would have a big impact.
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Finally the penny has dropped on UBI.
 
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Australia has paid Parental Leave which covers early childhood (paid for by employers I gather).

I also know that years ago (when my son was young), there was a governmental Parenting Payment for the stay-at-home-parent, but I don't know if they still do.

Not quite "wages for housework", but not too different.
 
" Federici proposes that housework—cooking and cleaning, taking care of children, spouses, the sick, and the elderly—should be compensated by the government.

Next, should I expect government payment for picking up my dogs' crap in the yard? How about taking a shower? Cleaning up after dinner? It's nonsense. There are just things in life that have to be done if you want to live in the manner you want. How in the world would the government know whether someone is cleaning their house regularly therefore earn money for it? It's nonsense.

People can work out their own domestic responsibilities. This is one of the most stupid ideas I've ever heard. Help in caring for the elderly or sick is another matter entirely. That should be part of our healthcare system.
 
Try pricing daycare, landscaping, and house keeping and tell me folks don't deserve some compensation for keeping their homes clean.

Keep in mind, things like the 40 hour work week were predicated on the idea that there would be one income and one person at home doing the housework. In fact, the federal minimum wage was first calculated to allow a man (it was the 30s) to support himself, a wife, and 2 kids. Not just the essentials, but also some leisure spending and retirement savings.

I would agree with Steve Aitch. Roll out some sort of UBI.
 
Traditionally it's the person who benefits from a service who foots the bill for that service. So sure, housework should be paid for, by the people who live in that house. They're the ones creating the messes, after all.
 
If the government pays for it will a government inspector come to your house to check that the housework is actually being done properly? What if your house is a mess?

With married couples where one is the breadwinner and the other is the housekeeper, essentially the housekeeper is paid. My wife and I have a fairly traditional marriage. She hasn't had an income since we married 30 years ago, and I support both of us and our children (with some help from her mother and my parents). So she doesn't get paid a wage, but we share my income. That's exactly it, isn't it? We are both the beneficiaries of her housework.
 
It is a very stupid idea that the people who are at the height of their productivity and income potential also have to do childcare and housework.
A more communal, multigenerational model would free up a lot of potential for everyone, when kids are looked after/raise by "the village", and chores are done communally whenever possible - it is tremendously inefficient that people clean, cook, wash etc. for a group of 2-4 instead of doing it together on one or two higher orders of magnitude.
It would also be much cheaper.
 
Who pays these wages?

What about people who stay at home but don't do any housework? Do they get the stipend too, or does the government send around an inspector every week to make sure Howie Homemaker is vacuuming under the furniture like he's supposed to?

Is Howie's pay docked if he tells his family he doesn't feel like cooking, and they should order a pizza or something?
 
Puppycow said:
If the government pays for it will a government inspector come to your house to check that the housework is actually being done properly? What if your house is a mess?

With married couples where one is the breadwinner and the other is the housekeeper, essentially the housekeeper is paid. My wife and I have a fairly traditional marriage. She hasn't had an income
since we married 30 years ago, and I support both of us and our children (with some help from her mother and my parents). So she doesn't get paid a wage, but we share my income. That's exactly it, isn't it? We are both the beneficiaries of her housework.
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The highlighted part is important. The world has changed. Single income households are more difficult to find because it is far less tenable now than previous decades. Cost of living is outpacing wages, especially for younger people and people without college degrees. Child care alone costs pretty much the median income.

For some households, it is more cost effective to have one person stay home than have both parents work. But that person is then giving up all of their potential earned income by leaving the work force for several years. So, when you do find a single income household, they are just getting by. Can't rely on family because they are all working too.
 
Do housewives/homemakers do their cleaning and all as a service to their man (who largely might not care or even notice), or because it's in her personal interests, creating a reflection of high standards, and a source of personal pride? If the latter, does the man get paid for going to the gym? Or to the bar ro socialize, and other activities that reflect his standing in the community?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It is a very stupid idea that the people who are at the height of their productivity and income potential also have to do childcare and housework.
A more communal, multigenerational model would free up a lot of potential for everyone, when kids are looked after/raise by "the village", and chores are done communally whenever possible - it is tremendously inefficient that people clean, cook, wash etc. for a group of 2-4 instead of doing it together on one or two higher orders of magnitude.
It would also be much cheaper.
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Communes (and kibbutzes ;)) have been tried before, and still exist. Some have been found workable for various lengths of time. People are free to choose that lifestyle if they wish. There is no payment system or wages involved.

Nobody has to do any of those things. You could choose not to have a house, or children. Or you could choose to live in a filthy house and let your kids go feral. If you choose to own a car should you be paid for maintenance time and costs? Does "housework" extend to yard maintenance? Just cleaning or is maintenance work and expenses included? Why make others financially responsible for your personal choices?

My wife and I kept our own home and raised our daughter while holding down jobs and still finding time for a reasonable social life. It was not an onerous task.

As mentioned upthread a paid job normally has minimum standards to be maintained, and supervision is required to confirm those standards are met. Who will set, and supervise the minimum standards for home cleanliness?
 
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