Veterinary homoeopathy illegal?

Rolfe

Adult human female
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Much discussion among sceptical vets regarding a letter which appeared in Veterinary Times last week.

Background. In the UK vets are bound by a law known as the "cascade" which obliges them to use licensed medicines where available, choosing from a "cascading" list of availability. Read all about it.

A couple of weeks ago the Chief Executive of the Veterinary Medicines Directorate wrote to the Veterinary Times criticising a dermatology specialist who had recommended an unapproved treatment for an ear infection in dogs. He basically said as it was unapproved, it was illegal to use it. Fulll stop.

This prompted a letter querying the rationale for this, and also asking where homoeopathic remedies stood in this respect. The reply, though somewhat weasel-worded, was quite clear. You can read it here.
Homoeopathic remedies should be authorised in a similar manner to other forms of veterinary medicine. Thus, assuming a homoeopathic remedy is authorised either as a veterinary or human medicine, it may be used under the cascade using exactly the same rules as any other veterinary medicine. If, however, the homoeopathic remedy is not authorised for use as a human or animal remedy, then it may not be used under the cascade provision. Veterinary surgeons may like to know that there are currently no homoeopathic remedies authorised for use as veterinary medicines in the UK.
And since there are no homoeopathic remedies approved for human use either, QED. It's also made perfectly clear in both letters that use of unapproved medicines (outwith a genuine licensed clinical trial) is illegal.

Even better, a vet was actually struck off last week for refusing to obey the cascade after receiving two written warnings. Press release about that. (There was more detail in the report in the Veterinary Record, but that isn't available online.) Basically this guy injected a cat with a worming preparation which is only approved for use in cattle and sheep, despite the availability of dozens of wormers licensed for cats.

Don't be expecting wholesale striking off of homoeopaths. It doesn't work like that. However, Mr. Dean's letter is the first time it has been explicitly stated that homoeopathy is covered by the cascade (there was always the possibility that the content-free nature of the preparations might have been used as a paradoxical get-out, but that seems not to be the case). Now that has been stated it becomes possible to protest about the explicit advertising and promotion of homoeopathy to and by the veterinary profession, such as the advertisements for their courses, the articles they write, their lectures to university students and so on.

I wouldn't die of shock if as individuals they managed to evade the cascade on a technicality, such as not actually administering the stuff to the animals or giving it to the owners, but just telling them what to buy off the shelf in Boots and charging solely for consultation. However, I don't see how any veterinary publication can easily defend a decision to advertise or promote this practice.

This has the potential to get interesting.

Rolfe.
 
I wonder what the BMA stance is? the RPS seems ambiguous.

There is a precedent of a GPs being prosecuted for mucking about CAM rather than providing proper care ...

Best of luck Rolfey, but that'll be a hard battle
 
Ah, this is perverse...they want to ban fox hunting because it is cruel, but some advocate for homeopathic medicines for animals...is there some famous quote about being able to hold two contradictory thoughts at the same time...(and I don't think is was genius...)
 
Benguin said:
I wonder what the BMA stance is? the RPS seems ambiguous.
The interesting part about this is that it is an entirely unintended consequence of a law originally aimed at controlling what goes into food-producing animals. It has precisely nothing to do with the ethics of using sCAM methods and so on, and everything to do with goose and gander sauce.

Since the cascade applies to all veterinary species, not just the food-producing ones, and it has been explicitly stated that a. it is illegal to use a medicine outwith the cascade and b. homoeopathic remedies are outwith the cascade, it becomes irrational to persecute a dermatologist for advocating the use of EDTA-tris and yet condone homoeopaths advocating the use of homoeopathic remedies.

Homoeopathic remedies are used in food-producing animals too, of course, and are in fact actively encouraged by EU bodies promoting organic farming. I don't think anyone has yet pointed out the cascade implications of that advice!

Give us time!

Actually, I think concentration on the advertising and promotion part of it might be quite productive. I mean, they're not going to come and clap me in irons for treating a dog's ear with EDTA-tris. But if I were to start a British Society for the Veterinary use of EDTA-tris, and start running courses for vets about using EDTA-tris, and writing articles and lecturing students about the use of EDTA-tris, I think something might happen.

So, goose and gander sauce. Homoeopathy is no more legit than EDTA-tris, as we now know.

Rolfe.
 
We watch a lot of those "Animal Planet" shows, and it's apparent that the use of these things is pretty widespread. Several segments have shown owners, breeders, and even vets using homeopathic nostrums, acupuncture, and so forth.

The home-vetenary catalogues are full of the stuff as well.

What a deal, Rover can't even protest!
 
Mmm, why do we not post this at otherhealth and hpaty and watch the fireworks :zzw: ?

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Mmm, why do we not post this at otherhealth and hpaty and watch the fireworks :zzw: ?

Hans

because that last thing we want is the grass roots support for homeopathy to cause even more problems than they are going to already.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Mmm, why do we not post this at otherhealth and hpaty and watch the fireworks :zzw: ?

Hans

It'll just fuel all that nonsense about 'big pharma' being engaged in some sort of allopathic conspiracy to silence them.
 
There is a place up near Vancouver Island that claims to do wild animal rescue. I saw a TV story on them where they claimed all sorts of great results with homeopathy.

It seems that this did not sit well with one person who lives up there... someone who Rolfe would get alone quite nicely with:
http://www.saltspring.com/capewest/seal.htm

Unfortunately, this is the lone voice against the insanity.
 
*sighs* I just love it when Rolfe sends out the elephants to stomp the clowns...
 
Hydrogen Cyanide said:
There is a place up near Vancouver Island that claims to do wild animal rescue. I saw a TV story on them where they claimed all sorts of great results with homeopathy.

It seems that this did not sit well with one person who lives up there... someone who Rolfe would get alone quite nicely with:
http://www.saltspring.com/capewest/seal.htm

Unfortunately, this is the lone voice against the insanity.
This is really sad... kidnapping perfectly healthy baby seals away from their mothers, and then crediting homeopathic potions when they turn out to be healthy. Cretins.

Turns out the offending organization is linked from the hosting site, which appears to be a local ISP. Here's their site:

http://www.islandnet.com/~wildlife/

Their homeopathy section lists a number of papers supposedly supporting homeopathy.

The Saltspring domain also hosts a bunch of other Woo foolishness, including, for example, light energy therapy for horses.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Mmm, why do we not post this at otherhealth and hpaty and watch the fireworks :zzw: ?
Because this has nothing at all to do with the efficacy or otherwise of homoeopathy, and everything to do with unintended consequences of a law which wasn't even thinking about homoeopathy when it got enacted. Of course this doesn't stop it being used very effectively (potentially a lot more effective than continually trying to discredit the practice), but the circumstances are likely simply to make the homoeopaths feel unjustly persecuted.

Actually, there are perfectly sensible vets who are inclined to mutter about this law being there more to protect Big Pharma than anything else. But that's another argument. The point I'm interested in is that if you're going to smack people for suggesting something quite well researched just because it doesn't have approval, then how can you allow people to openly promote stuff which has neither good research nor approval to commend it?

Rolfe.
 
Originally posted by headscratcher4 ...is there some famous quote about being able to hold two contradictory thoughts at the same time...(and I don't think is was genius...)
Congitive dissonance.
 
We had a vet who dished out homeopathic "medicines" for our dog but would use real vaccines when immunisation time came around. What does this say about his faith in homeopathy? Could have been a legal requirement, I suppose.
 
Just took my pet to the (allopathic) vet for a checkup. Right in front of the vet, twice, I gave him a homeopathic remedy to calm him down. The vet remembers how terrified he was last year, before I was using anything. This time, worked like a charm. Vet had no problem with it at all and was delighted my pet handled the exam so calmly.
 
Rolfe,

How does the law stand on giving no treatment ? I appreciate giving unauthorised treatments is iffy but giving no treatment ? The law would have to be carefully worded so as not to punish vets genuinely missing a symptom.

The reason I make this point is that for humans, homeopathic remedies are specially licensed. One condition of licensing is that they do nothing,. Effectively they are not a treatment.

Could this be your technicality.
 
Bowser said:
Just took my pet to the (allopathic) vet for a checkup. Right in front of the vet, twice, I gave him a homeopathic remedy to calm him down. The vet remembers how terrified he was last year, before I was using anything. This time, worked like a charm. Vet had no problem with it at all and was delighted my pet handled the exam so calmly.

Theory that fits all the facts avaible: the remedy calmed you down so the animal stopped picking up your stress.
 
2 minutes talking to the vet and fussing your animal would very likely calm the whole situation down a bit.

Have you thought of trying it with plain sugar pills and see what happens? :D
 

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