Vegetarianism

[seayakin]

Have any of you run into people who call themselves vegetarian but eat fish and/or chicken.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian) has definitions for these variations

There are a number of types of vegetarianism, which exclude or include various foods.
Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.

Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.

Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.

Veganism excludes all animal flesh and animal products, including milk, honey, and eggs, and may also exclude any products tested on animals, or any clothing from animals.[20]

Raw veganism includes only fresh and uncooked fruit, nuts, seeds, and vegetables.
Vegetables can only be cooked up to a certain temperature.[21]

Fruitarianism permits only fruit, nuts, seeds, and other plant matter that can be gathered without harming the plant.[22]

Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.

Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.

I had a neighbor who was a Jain and she said if it had a face she didn't eat it. That seems to me to be a pretty good definition of vegetarianism. I just take issue with people who essentially don't eat red meat and call themselves vegetarians. I have never confronted anyone on this but it has always irked me.

I was just curious if others have had the same experience.

 

[Tiktaalik]

There's a bunch of threads, some recent, that cover this in one way or another.

But, just for kicks:

I'm mostly vegetarian. That is, I usually eat fruits, vegetables, grains. However, I do eat dairy products and if out to dinner or served it by a friend, I will eat fish or fowl. I never eat red meat, haven't in 30 years.

How do I describe myself so I don't have to go through all that with the inevitable questions? I say, "I'm mostly veg, but I'll eat fish or chicken."

There are a ton of reasons for people to eat they way they do: for me, I have digestive problems and that started me off. There are food sensitivities, allergies, philosophic issues with animal treatment, pollution, whatever. There's no reason to get "irked" because someone's definition of themselves doesn't fit your idea of it. Some people just don't want to discuss all the ins & outs of how they eat all the time, so they use a convenient shortcut.

 

[Fnord]

Diets are not absolute, yet each diet seems to have its share of fanatical believers and detractors.

At one end of the spectrum are the strict organic vegans - fruits, nuts, vegetables (the diet, not the people), all grown without pesticides, herbicides and artificial fertilizers. At the other end are the devout carnivores - those for whom a meal is not a meal unless the death of an animal is involved. Both sides seem to delight in criticizing the other as much as Atheists and Fundies seem to engage in their pointless debates.

Somewhere in the middle are the rest of us, who eat reasonably well-balanced diets most of the time (if we can affor it). We get it from both sides.

But so what? Diet, like religion, is a personal choice, and should not be imposed upon others.

As for me and my house, we will serve the pork.

 

[Wowbagger]

I just take issue with people who essentially don't eat red meat and call themselves vegetarians.

Yes, there are words to describe variations in vegetarian diet, just like there are for Halel and Kosher diets, and even variations on various weight-loss diets.

But, for sake of brevity, one word is often used as a shorthand to cover many of the diets, for someone who has to prepare food.

"Vegetarian" covers most of the vegetarian diets pretty well.

"Kosher" is good enough for almost all of its scenarios. Yet, some people are certainly more Kosher than others.
Things even vary a bit more during Passover. But, even then it is rare for someone to specify Sephardic or Ashkenazi, even though you'd think there would be religious motivations to do so.

And, as for weight loss, the even more generic word "diet" is almost always used, to cover a huge variety of different "diets" one might be on.

Don't sweat the shorthand so much.

 

[commandlinegamer]

Vegetarians don't eat smegging fish. It's not rocket science.

I refuse to be labelled anyway; it becomes complicated when you realise that eating eggs, drinking milk still results in animal culling (male chicks and calves).

 

[qayak]

Have any of you run into people who call themselves vegetarian but eat fish and/or chicken.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian) has definitions for these variations



I had a neighbor who was a Jain and she said if it had a face she didn't eat it. That seems to me to be a pretty good definition of vegetarianism. I just take issue with people who essentially don't eat red meat and call themselves vegetarians. I have never confronted anyone on this but it has always irked me.

I was just curious if others have had the same experience.

Yes, I have run into this. In fact, my wife. When I first met her 14-15 years ago, she ate meat but always a small portion. We'd go to a restaurant, she would have a 6 ounce steak and leave half or less on the plate.

Her oldest daughter became vegatarian and then vegan. My wife stopped eating beef, and pork, on ethical grounds. A year or two later, she stopped eating chicken. She would still eat wild salmon, wild trout, prawns, etc.

Then her youngest daughter, while in university, did a bunch of research on how fish and seafood were being harvested. At that point most seafood was off the menu, once again for ethical reasons. Now we have salmon or trout once a month or so.

So, my wife is pretty much a vegetarian although she does eat dairy, eggs, and fish once a month or so.

I am a vegetarian, by force/choice. I choose not to do any cooking so I am forced to eat what my wife cooks for meals. So far, I'm not starving and I am very healthy.

NOTE: Before anyone gets upset over the "traditional" role my wife plays in the kitchen, I do all the cleaning. She likes to cook, doesn't like to clean-up after. I don't like to cook, don't mind cleaning up after. So, it is a match made in heaven.

NOTE 2: Whether you are vegetarian, or not, you owe it to yourself to try quinoa if you haven't already. Quinoa is a pseudo-cereal related to beets, spinach and tumbleweed. Although it is not a grain it looks, and cooks, like one but the great thing about it is that it contains a full set of essential amino acids required by humans which traditionally we only got from meat. Plus, it tastes great.

 

[seayakin]

Yes, there are words to describe variations in vegetarian diet, just like there are for Halel and Kosher diets, and even variations on various weight-loss diets.

But, for sake of brevity, one word is often used as a shorthand to cover many of the diets, for someone who has to prepare food.

"Vegetarian" covers most of the vegetarian diets pretty well.

"Kosher" is good enough for almost all of its scenarios. Yet, some people are certainly more Kosher than others.
Things even vary a bit more during Passover. But, even then it is rare for someone to specify Sephardic or Ashkenazi, even though you'd think there would be religious motivations to do so.

And, as for weight loss, the even more generic word "diet" is almost always used, to cover a huge variety of different "diets" one might be on.

Don't sweat the shorthand so much.

This makes some sense to me in terms of using it as a shorthand. My girlfriend who is Jewish generally grew up eating kosher but her family didn't truly keep a kosher kitchen. She likes to say she eats "kosher style" and I've heard other Jewish people use the same frame of reference because they do not believe in the religious reasoning for them but it is culturally familiar and comfortable so they stay with it.

 

[Pulvinar]

"Semi-vegetarian" is a useful shorthand here.

 

[MatildaGage]

I am a real vegetarian and I am always asked if I eat chicken or fish. I say, "No, fish and chicken are meat." They say they have met other vegetarians who do, so that's why they asked.

It's a real sore point among vegetarians. Kind of like a Christian who tells fellow churchgoers he doesn't believe in Christ.

"Semi-vegetarian" is a useful shorthand here.

How is that different than omnivore?

 

[icerat]

The word you're looking for is flexitarian^WP

 

[Beerina]

I'm an ovo-lacto-beefo-porko-lambo-poultry-o vegetarian.

 

[Rufo]

Everyone in my family, myself excluded, either are or have been pesceratians (eating fish in addition to lacto-ovo vegetarian food) part of their life, but none of them have ever used that word to describe themselves. Why? Because vegetarian is a more commonly known word, and most people associate it with lacto-ovo vegetarianism, whereas pescetarian is a word I didn't even know existed before I started looking through the articles linked in this thread. 'Vegetarian' communicates most of their diet.

As I've understood it, the moral basis for this has to do at least partially with how they view fish as less capable of suffering. That said, I'm not part of it myself, so I don't know. I eat a lot of vegetarian meals, but that's mostly because it's cheap and I'm used to cooking for vegetarians.

 

[Pulvinar]

I am a real vegetarian and I am always asked if I eat chicken or fish. I say, "No, fish and chicken are meat." They say they have met other vegetarians who do, so that's why they asked.

It's a real sore point among vegetarians. Kind of like a Christian who tells fellow churchgoers he doesn't believe in Christ.


How is that different than omnivore?

Careful. We don't tolerate antiflexisemitarianism here.

 

[fleabeetle]

Whether you are vegetarian, or not, you owe it to yourself to try quinoa if you haven't already. Quinoa is a pseudo-cereal related to beets, spinach and tumbleweed. Although it is not a grain it looks, and cooks, like one but the great thing about it is that it contains a full set of essential amino acids required by humans which traditionally we only got from meat. Plus, it tastes great.

Slight bit of a derail, about quinoa: I (an omnivore) tried it a few years ago. Was not greatly taken with it. I found that it tasted rather like the spinach to which it is related. I like spinach fine -- just, it felt wrong to me for something seeming most like a grain, to taste that way. Could become a regular quinoa-consumer if I had to, but have no positive wish to. All luck and good wishes, to those who find it grand stuff...

 

[casebro]

Perhaps a new word is needed? Something that says "I don't eat mammals"? Like "a-mammo-phage" ? "amammovore"? Let's work on it, shall we? Who out there has some Greek? Latin? Or don't you believe in using culled languages?

 

[casebro]

But then the recurring theme of "I don't eat factory raised animals for ethical reasons" does put "amammovorism" into the religious realm. They do it for faith reasons, as if their ethics will be judged some day? Or is egotism a big factor- "I'll prove I'm better by taking a stand on something, vocally"?

I rank amammovorism with all the other extreme religions. Like the Muslims who cover their beautiful daughters with a blanket. Or Christian Scientists that won't use modern medicine.

One thing for sure- People are the most entertaining of all species.

 

[MatildaGage]

To me only 3 words are needed: omnivore, vegetarian, and vegan. Everything falls into that category. All individuals have some items within their categories they refuse to eat--due to preferences, moral objections, religious beliefs, or what have you.

The reason why fish is so confusing to people is that some religions teach fish aren't meat like other animals are. (I'm sure I'm just pointing out the obvious, this being Lent and all.)

 

[GlennB]

Perhaps a new word is needed? Something that says "I don't eat mammals"? Like "a-mammo-phage" ? "amammovore"? Let's work on it, shall we? Who out there has some Greek? Latin? Or don't you believe in using culled languages?

Yep, that's a fair point. Unfortunately Greek for 'mammal' seems to be θηλαστικό ζώο, or thilastiko zo-o in Greeklish.

So I reckon your ammamophage could work. But what of frogs and snakes? It's all too hard. Just have a bacon sandwich and relax, I say.

 

[Cuddles]

I just take issue with people who essentially don't eat red meat and call themselves vegetarians.

For me it depends on why they don't eat meat. If it's just about the taste, I really don't care. I find it somewhat amusing that they call themselves vegetarians instead of just admitting to being fussy eaters, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing not to eat food that you don't like. However, if someone claims to not eat meat because of animal cruelty or the environment, but is happy to eat a fish that has been stabbed in the face, dragged out the water and left to suffocate slowly, and is probably about to go extinct from overfishing, then I'm happy to point out their hypocrisy.

It also depends very much on how they present themselves. If you keep it fairly quiet and just mention it at restaurants or wherever so you get the right food, I don't really care what you call yourself. On the other hand, if you get all in my face with smug condescension about how great you are because you're a vegetarian, then I don't care if you are absolutely strict about sticking to only vegetables, I'll eat extra meat just to annoy you. Same as any belief really - don't bother me with it and I won't bother you.

 

[Joey McGee]

A "vegetarian" friend who fit that description has recurring "nightmares" about craving red met. Over the top fantasies with unbelievable detail. She can call herself whatever she wants, in my mind she's a "cold-blooded killer obsessed with the taste of animal flesh" in denial.