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USA Laws founded on 10 commandments

thaiboxerken

Penultimate Amazing
thaiboxerken
Joined
Sep 17, 2001
Messages
34,573
Mycroft said:
#3. Do not take the Lord’s name in vain.

There are certainly laws against cursing in public as well as laws on what words may be broadcast. Many curse words have nothing to do with blasphemy, but remember for the purpose of our discussion the law only needs to be based on the Ten Commandments, not an exact copy.

#4 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

We get Sundays off in virtually every line of work that doesn’t require seven days a week coverage. Very often those that do require people to work Sundays pay them extra money for it.

#5 Honor your father and mother.

At least until you’re 18, this is mandatory.

#6 Shalt not kill, self-explanatory.

#7 Shalt not commit adultery.

There are certainly laws that regulate sexual behavior and specifically divorce laws that impose severe penalties for adultery.

#8 Thou shalt not steal, self-explanatory

#9 Thou shalt not bear false witness: perjury is a crime.

# 10 No coveting. While there may not be laws against wanting, there are certainly many laws about the right and wrong ways of acquiring your neighbors stuff. All kinds of scams and frauds have been made illegal in order to assist your neighbor in keeping his stuff.

So by my count eight out of ten. Maybe even nine of ten if you consider “I am the Lord thy God.” reflected congressional prayers, the words “In God We Trust” printed on our money, and the use of Bibles to swear in witnesses during court proceedings.
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It has been the assertion by a few people that the USA was founded on the 10 commandments, and the reasoning is similar to that of MyCrofts. I dont' agree, though, since those reasons above are stretch reason more than Elastigirl's legs.
 
thaiboxerken said:
It has been the assertion by a few people that the USA was founded on the 10 commandments, and the reasoning is similar to that of MyCrofts. I dont' agree, though, since those reasons above are stretch reason more than Elastigirl's legs.
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That's a particularly unpersuasive piece of reasoning on Mycroft's part. Some of those are obvious stretches-- regulation of profanity on television has nothing to do with blasphemy, and "regulation of sexual behavior," to the extent such laws are constitutional (e.g., rape laws) have nothing to do with prohibiting adultery. Others are not particular to the Ten Commandments-- show me any civilization throughout history, Judeo-Christian or not, that didn't have some prohibition on killing, stealing, etc. Those kinds of social norms are necessary to the functioning of any society and can't plausibly be said to have their roots in one particular code of ancient laws.
 
#3. "Do not take the lord's name in vain."
Are there laws against blasphemy in the USA? Mycroft cites "cursing" but cursing is't blasphemy. In fact, if there were such a law, it would be unconstitutional.

#4 Remember the sabbath
Again, a law that would be unconstitutional. States might have enforced days off, but they certainly didn't force worship. Granted, the Sunday laws are influenced by christians, but not the original founders of the country.

#5 Honor Mother and Father.
No laws there that enforce this commandment.

#7 Adultery
A secular principle. Also, there are not criminal laws against this at the federal level.

#10 Coveting
Our society is dependant on coveting, it drives the economy.
 
thaiboxerken said:
It has been the assertion by a few people that the USA was founded on the 10 commandments, and the reasoning is similar to that of MyCrofts. I dont' agree, though, since those reasons above are stretch reason more than Elastigirl's legs.
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Similiarities between two things don't necessarily prove a connection. I'm sure you could find parallels between US Law and the laws of a variety of ancient cultures. Does that mean that the founders had the laws of Hamarabi in mind when they set quill to parchment? Not really.

If one was going to claim that American law is founded on the Ten Commandments (or anything else for that matter) then I would personally expect some more proof that basic similarities
 
To expand on my above post, a lot of these are the social equivalent of what Dennett would call forced moves-- they are necessary to the functioning of any society, so the fact that they appear in various legal systems does not mean that one legal system is rooted in a previous one bearing some of these same features. It is simply impossible to maintain a civilization without some restrictions on killing, stealing, lying, etc. Giving parents some legal authority over their children also arguably falls into this category, and it's certainly a feature of many societies outside the Judaic tradition. The only ones that are specific to Judeo-Christianity, i.e., the ones about blasphemy and idolatry, are the very ones that are conspicuously absent from the U.S. legal system.

Ergo: no direct correlation between U.S. law and the Ten Commandments (though it would be silly to argue that Christian belief played no role in the evolution of Anglo-American law).
 
First problem are the commandments themselves. Different religions word them differently.

The other problem is that commandents don't match up to our laws. There are few states that criminalize sexual behaivor outside of marraige. As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, cursing and blasphemy are two different things. Blasphemy is a far-reaching concept. Any law based on penalizing blasphemy would be unconstitutional. Coveting is different from theft. Coveting is desire (thought) versus theft (action). Lastly, honor thy father and mother has no analogous statute in US law. Being under control of your parents doesn't mean your honoring them.

Our laws(even at the time of the framers) differ from the commandments in terms of punishment. The punishment for violating the commandments is death in most cases.

I seem to remember George Carlin doing a bit about the ten commandments. He paired down to two. http://www.geocities.com/bobmelzer/gc10cx.html
 
I very much suspect that any remaining statutes criminalizing fornication or adultery would be held unconstitutional.
 
JamesDillon said:
I very much suspect that any remaining statutes criminalizing fornication or adultery would be held unconstitutional.
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Most of them are not enforced anyway
 
thaiboxerken said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1838801#post1838801
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Ah...context is everything. Thank you.

What was missing from this thread to what Mycroft was responding.

I recommend others read his context as well.

Number four (sabbath) is the only one that still(?) carries legal weight in some places and seems clearly religious in nature. Blue laws are still on the books in some towns, though it is becoming more and more rare. VB [finally] got rid of them about 15 years ago.

I suppose it could be argued that Blue laws have benefits above and beyond the religious context but...well, it would need a good explaination.

I say...work 'em 24/7/365 until they drop...
 
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Tuesday, Dec. 16, 2003​
According to a report in the Washington Post, a man in Luray, Virginia recently pled guilty to adultery, a crime for which the maximum penalty is a $250 fine. Ironically, it wasn't his wife who complained; it was apparently his lover. (He reportedly has reconciled with his wife.)

This case is a potent reminder--particularly for the man charged--that adultery is in fact a crime in more than twenty states. Though the laws are seldom enforced, their existence still affects the way people behave.
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http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20031216.html
 
Rob Lister said:
There are in the military and they are enforced.
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The military is a different situation-- the constitutional rights of soldiers are not as robust as those of civilians.

SteveGrenard said:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20031216.html[/URL]
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I'm surprised that Virginia is still enforcing its adultery statute, though. If the guy had chosen to fight it, I suspect it would ultimately have been held unconstitutional, although with Roberts and Alito now on the court it might not have been.

Edited for clarity.
 
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JamesDillon said:
The military is a different situation-- the constitutional rights of soldiers are not as robust as those of civilians. I'm surprised that Virginia is still enforcing its adultery statute, though. If the guy had chosen to fight it, I suspect it would ultimately have been held unconstitutional, although with Roberts and Alito now on the court it might not have been.
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Where does it say this adultery case was military?
 
Missouri has a history of so-called "blue laws" regulating all manner of things that one might do on Sunday.
This has included sales of "non-essential" items, regulating store hours, liquor sales, and having differing parking regulations on streets near churches on Sundays.
Most all of these have been dropped or repealed, though some only recently. It has been within the last year, for instance, that supermarkets were allowed unregulated liquor sales on Sunday.
 
thaiboxerken said:
#3. "Do not take the lord's name in vain."
Are there laws against blasphemy in the USA? Mycroft cites "cursing" but cursing is't blasphemy. In fact, if there were such a law, it would be unconstitutional.
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No, goddammit. There is no goddamn law against blasphemy, OR taking the Lord's name in vain.

#4 Remember the sabbath
Again, a law that would be unconstitutional. States might have enforced days off, but they certainly didn't force worship. Granted, the Sunday laws are influenced by christians, but not the original founders of the country.
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The "weekend," two days off work, is more the product of the labor movement than anything else.

#5 Honor Mother and Father.
No laws there that enforce this commandment.
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Not even close, as evidenced by such fine documentary filmmakers as Jerry Springer and Ricki Lake.

#7 Adultery
A secular principle. Also, there are not criminal laws against this at the federal level.
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And the state ones tend to be completely unenforceable. On the rare occasion they are enforced, they tend to be shot down faster than a lawyer on a duck shoot with Dick Cheney.
 
Sunday is not the Sabbath. Saturday is the day of the Sabbath. Sunday is merely a day of prayer established for churches way back in the beginning of Christianity.

I know of no statute banning polytheism, idolatry, uttering the Lord's name, being disrespectful to one's parents, working on Saturday, or coveting. That only leaves murder, theft, perjury and adultery.

At least 60% of the commandments are legal throughout the United States. Polytheism, idolatry and using the Lord's name in vain are actually protected activity under the First Amendment. I do not understand how it plausibly could be argued that American laws are based on the Ten Commandments.
 
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