US kidnapped Aristide

I heard some senators interviewing General Noriega (of the US, not pineapple face) on just this issue. Basically, he couldn't answer a yes/no question and dodged every question they put to him on it. Sounds like Aristide was right.
 
Because Noriega didn't answer questions to your satisfaction you conclude that the conspiracy theories are therefore true?
Remarkable logic.
This explains a lot...
 
crackmonkey said:
Because Noriega didn't answer questions to your satisfaction you conclude that the conspiracy theories are therefore true?
Remarkable logic.
This explains a lot...
Click to expand...

No, I mean he just didn't answer them. Explicit, direct and unambiguous questions on if the guy was kidnapped or not, and if the US has a place in doing so.

According to this, the plot thickens.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/natio...1,0,4730210.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines

The departure of Haiti's Jean-Bertrand Aristide is a victory for a Bush administration hard-liner who has been long dedicated to Aristide's ouster, U.S. foreign policy analysts say.

That official is Roger Noriega, assistant U.S. secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, whose influence over U.S. policy toward Haiti has increased during the past decade as he climbed the diplomatic ladder in Washington.

"Roger Noriega has been dedicated to ousting Aristide for many, many years, and now he's in a singularly powerful position to accomplish it," Robert White, a former U.S. ambassador to El Salvador and Paraguay, said last week.

White, now president of the Center for International Policy, a think tank in Washington, said Noriega's ascent largely has been attributed to his ties to North Carolina Republican Jesse Helms, an arch-conservative foe of Aristide who had behind-the-scenes influence over policy toward Latin America and the Caribbean before retiring from the Senate two years ago.

"Helms didn't just dislike Aristide, Helms loathed Aristide because he saw in Aristide another Castro," said Larry Birns, director of the Washington-based Council on Hemispheric Affairs, which has been strongly critical of the Bush administration's policy on Haiti.

Working hand in hand with Noriega on Haiti has been National Security Council envoy Otto Reich, who, like Noriega, is ardently opposed to Cuban leader Fidel Castro, say analysts such as Birns. Washington diplomats have seen Aristide as a leftist who is often fierce in his denunciations of the business class and slow to make recommended changes such as privatizing state-run industries.

"On a day-to-day basis, Roger Noriega [has been] making policy, but with a very strong role played by Otto Reich," Birns said.

Reich is a controversial Cuban-American criticized by some who have lingering concerns about his contacts with opposition figures who plotted a short-lived coup against Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chávez, two years ago. Reich also is linked to the Iran-contra scandal of two decades ago that was part of President Ronald Reagan's policy of defeating Marxists in Central America.
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Reminds me of that thread I posted about the Citizens of the US not being able to face up to what is being done in their name.

A lot of the time, the response is that the US doesn't do that any more. B*llsh*t.

Noriega was asked point blank, did the US kidnap Aristide. He dithered around, but did not say a simple no. He was asked if Haiti was a democracy, once again, more dithering.

It appears that the only democarcy the US likes is the one that does as the US wants.
 
Hey AUP, why don't you throw in a claim about the US using nerve gas against the Haitians, just to round out your story? After all, we never denied we used nerve gas against them, so maybe it's true.

Where's an Isreali lesbian robot Aristide impersonator when you need one?
 
crackmonkey said:
My article contradicts you. It says clearly that Noriega denied ousting him.
Another article saying the same...
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aptKDL.Bzyro&refer=home

yet another

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/03/mil-040303-34e7f947.htm

It appears your source was incorrect. If you can find a transcript showing my sources to be wrong, I'll be happy to admit error...
Click to expand...

I have tried to find a transcript, but haven't. I heard him, and the Bloomberg article is an outright lie. Noriega was the one dodging the questions.
 
The front pages of major American newspapers and the talking heads on the news channels would have you believe that the resignation of Jean-Bertrand Aristide from his presidency in Haiti was voluntary. Questions have been raised, however, about the manner in which his departure unfolded. In short, there is mounting evidence to suggest that Aristide was removed involuntarily from power by American forces.

Randall Robinson, founder of TransAfrica and a close friend to Aristide, was interviewed on CNN by Wolf Blitzer on Monday afternoon about the events unfolding in Haiti. Robinson, who is one of the few people to actually speak with Aristide since yesterday, said, "We have undertaken a coup against a democratically elected government in Haiti." Congressman Charles Rangel, who also spoke to Aristide, said later on CNN, "He was kidnapped. He resigned under pressure. He and his wife had no idea where he was going. He was very apprehensive for his life."
Click to expand...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/030204A.shtml

According to this, and it is quoting a US Congressman, he was kidnapped.
 
So, the US is acting in who's interests in ousting Aristide? I could believe that they were helping these people, perhaps, if another election was on the way and there were candidates out there that looked promising. But when 'Baby' Doc feels safe to return, you can only feel that there is worse to come.

Powell appears to be saying that if the US does not think a President of a country is not governing well, (by whose standards, I have no idea, perhaps some whim of the the current administration), then it has the right to interfere with the internal politics of that country.

This is utter madness, and a country running rampant around the world.

Powell said that "it might have been better for members of Congress who have heard these stories to ask us about the stories before going public with them so we don't make a difficult situation that much more difficult."

He called Aristide "a man who was democratically elected, but he did not democratically govern or govern well," he said. "Now we are there to give the Haitian people another chance."

Randall Robinson, an African-American activist, told CNN he received a similar phone call from Aristide. And the ex-president's attorney, Ira Kurzban, said that if it is true Aristide was abducted, it would be "a gross violation of human rights."

"It is the worst kind of 19th century gunboat diplomacy," he said. "If this is President Bush's order, the Congress needs to investigate and determine if it's an impeachable offense."

Kurzban said that Aristide did not resign, and suggested that the statement he allegedly signed was either fake or signed under duress.
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Why don't Maxine Waters and Charles Rangel just end this controversy by plucking him out of Africa and bringing him back to the warm embrace of his beloved Haiti and her peaceful people who wouldn't dream of hacking him into little pieces after dragging him behind an SUV for a while?

I'll bet that would require a real kicking and screaming kidnapping...
 
WildCat said:
Why don't Maxine Waters and Charles Rangel just end this controversy by plucking him out of Africa and bringing him back to the warm embrace of his beloved Haiti and her peaceful people who wouldn't dream of hacking him into little pieces after dragging him behind an SUV for a while?

I'll bet that would require a real kicking and screaming kidnapping...
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It sounds like half the people after him are the previous dictator and his cronies, who did go around hacking people to death and other atrocities. Like I said, "Baby Doc" is back in town. A man with plenty of blood on his hands.
 
a_unique_person said:


It sounds like half the people after him are the previous dictator and his cronies, who did go around hacking people to death and other atrocities. Like I said, "Baby Doc" is back in town. A man with plenty of blood on his hands.
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Which was my point! Do you really think it required a kidnapping to get him out of there?

My guess is that he's attempting not to look like a coward to his few remaining supporters by making these kidnapping allegations.

And I wouldn't expect a foreigner to know this, but Maxine Waters has built her career on "everything bad (crack, AIDS, drugs, gangs, etc. etc.) that happens to black people is the result of a massive cracker government conspiracy". Her poor uneducated district eats up this kind of nonsense.
 
Powell sounds like he is glad to have Baby Doc back in town, in preference to Aristide. Aristide, for all his problems, does not sound like he is anywhere in the same league. And he was democratically elected.
 
I heard some senators interviewing General Noriega (of the US, not pineapple face) on just this issue. Basically, he couldn't answer a yes/no question and dodged every question they put to him on it. Sounds like Aristide was right.

"A Unique Person" is absolutely correct here, except for three small details:

1). Noriega isn't (and never was) a general:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/4708.htm

2). He not only could, but in fact did, answer the yes/no questions asked by the lawmakers in Congress:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/03/mil-040303-34e7f947.htm

(Note in particular: "Mr. Noriega flatly denied allegations Mr. Aristide was forcibly removed from Haiti, adding that he was "not aware" of any involvement by the C-I-A in the Haitian leader's departure."; and the location and time--last Wednesday, in front of the the House of Representative's "Western Hemisphere Subcommittee")

3). He didn't dodge any questions, at least according to the reports in mainstream media sources:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aptKDL.Bzyro&refer=home

Buy EXCEPT for THAT, AUP's description is perfectly accurate.

After all, it appeared on the august web site, www.truthout.org , a web site well-known for its objective, impassionate, and factual views--as exemplified by op-eds like "Al Gore, an American President in Exile" and "80 Failures in 100 Shrub Daze" (sic; an article about Bush's 100 first days in office).

It sure doesn't take much to convince AUP of silly conspiracy theories, does it? As long as they blame the USA (or the jews) of evil, nefarious acts, of course.
 
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