Universal Income.

Lplus said:
...snip...

Perhaps, but I think you overestimate the number of really unpleasant jobs around. Most of the low paid jobs are simply boring, unfulfilling, menial, etc....snip....
Click to expand...

Are they? One large segment is personal care and caring for people is often portrayed as one of our most noble vocations. Where I live being a household cleaner will earn you considerably more than a carer. (Carer £10.42 - £13.50 per hour, domestic cleaner £15-20 per hour.) The carer will have training - albeit not so much and is only responsible for someone's else's quality of life so nowt important.
 
Darat said:
Are they? One large segment is personal care and caring for people is often portrayed as one of our most noble vocations. Where I live being a household cleaner will earn you considerably more than a carer. (Carer £10.42 - £13.50 per hour, domestic cleaner £15-20 per hour.) The carer will have training - albeit not so much and is only responsible for someone's else's quality of life so nowt important.
Click to expand...

There are some seriously menial jobs, but often the worst elements of these jobs are easily remedied, like bad pay, long or irregular hours, abusive bosses, etc.

A lot of low paid jobs would actually be quite fulfilling if they paid enough for the people working them to have a reasonable work-life balance.
 
Darat said:
Are they? One large segment is personal care and caring for people is often portrayed as one of our most noble vocations. Where I live being a household cleaner will earn you considerably more than a carer. (Carer £10.42 - £13.50 per hour, domestic cleaner £15-20 per hour.) The carer will have training - albeit not so much and is only responsible for someone's else's quality of life so nowt important.
Click to expand...

Yes I think they are. Your point about carers is taken but I doubt they make up a majority, or even close to it, of the low paid jobs in this country.
 
Graeber thought that the importance of a job for society is inversely proportional to the pay for it: teachers, caretakers, public transport, sanitation, garbage removal, housekeeping, childrearing, etc. etc.

In essence, high-paying jobs are so high-paying to confer to them an air of legitimacy, of importance, or necessity that just isn't there.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Graeber thought that the importance of a job for society is inversely proportional to the pay for it: teachers, caretakers, public transport, sanitation, garbage removal, housekeeping, childrearing, etc. etc.

In essence, high-paying jobs are so high-paying to confer to them an air of legitimacy, of importance, or necessity that just isn't there.
Click to expand...

Which suggests unpaid jobs are the most important of all..

Nah, it's just a inverted jobbery.
 
Brainster said:
No, it will be the migrants that you attract who will do those jobs, and of course because they require the least training they will be paid less.
Click to expand...


What a completely retro-something-or-other-whatever-the-word-is idea. Should there be migrants, and no doubt there will be, then they have to be entitled to the UBI as well. That is, we might screen for quality, for education level, for age; but once these guys are in, then they get UBI as well. At least if the idea is something good and healthy and wholesome and nice, as opposed to some kind of a dystopian evil society, some Athens, that runs on the sweat of the exploited.

You can absolutely ensure that migrants will be rocket surgeons. (Because if you bring in a thousand rocket surgeons, then I guess no more than ten or twenty or fifty will leave that to become gardeners, or painters, or idlers. Most I guess will keep doing what they'd trained to do.) .....But I don't see how you can ensure that migrants will be garbage collectors, not unless you're basically setting up a ****** up exploitative society.
 
angrysoba said:
Child-bearing and child rearing? Pretty important and very much unpaid.
Click to expand...

I would be interested to see what impact UBI might have on how parents make decisions. Childcare is wildly expensive, but so is leaving the job market to care for your own children.

I could easily see UBI changing how parents make decisions around child rearing, especially for young children who aren't attending school.
 
Darat said:
Universal income isn't meant to be the same as the income or the reason for the social "safety net" provided by many countries. It's also not meant to leave people poor. And you've missed a fundamental point of universal income I. E. It's universal, someone in a job would get their wage plus the universal income.
Click to expand...

No, I didn't 'miss' these points. I already discussed all these issues previously in the thread.
 
Lplus said:
Very true, but put your hand on your heart and tell me that taxing the higher paid isn't the way the proponents of the idea would like it to work.
Click to expand...
I don't think anybody who is serious about the idea would propose that taxing the rich is anything but one component of the process.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom