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Cont: UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

ufology said:
Millions of other people who aren't ufologists and who instantly associate the word UFO with alien craft,
Click to expand...

Mainly because con artists, Ufologists, and sensationalist media have worked hard to create that misunderstanding, frankly it's the only thing Ufologists have achieved in 60 year;, they certainly haven't proven the existence of alien craft flying in Earth's skies. I can only assume since you are flogging this dead horse again you've recognized the failure of your arguments in the Kelly Johnson case.
 
ufology said:
The fact is...BLAH...
Click to expand...


Your irrationality sickens me...THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF ALIEN SPACESHIPS.

So you can call it whatever ya want...it doesn't make any difference...no one cares...
 
ufology said:
The fact is that ( as your peers have pointed out ) as words come into common usage and take on a common meaning over time and become accepted in use by the vast majority of people, then those words evolve and become defined as what people actually use it for. In the case of the word UFO, it has origins in the phrase "flying saucer" because it is exactly that particular phrase that the acronym UFO was meant to replace. Why? Because as another observant poster here pointed out, it is less "loaded" with respect to the issue than "flying saucers", which is exactly what the USAF ( which created the acronym UFO ) had set out to investigate. They were investigating UFOs ( or flying saucers to everyone else ), and just because the Air Force slapped a politically correct military acronym on it to help downplay the phenomenon doesn't mean we don't see right through it. Not to mention ( again ) that the phrase flying saucer in today's dictionaries is synonymous with UFO. So to answer your question, yes I understand and you can repeat your error all you want and you still won't be correct. But I will be.
Click to expand...
More twaddle.

The term flying saucer as you well know was a tabloid press invention and misinterpretation of Kenneth Arnold's description of what the objects he saw behaved like, his description of what the objects looked like was something completely different. And even back then, the popular thought about flying saucers was that they were Russian aircraft, not aliens from outer space.
 
Ya know..if you think about [ufology]'s "argument" it really is simple "substitution" in order to prove the existence of aliens...and obviously so.
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed presonal comment


First he "establishes" that UFO's exist. Everyone agrees, because the term "UFO" stands for the words unidentified flying object. Then he pulls the old "switch-aroo" and says the the term UFO is synonymous with alien space ships, therefore, aliens have been proven to exist, and there can be no disagreement because olgy "says so".


Talk about deception in order to further an "agenda"...who do you think you are fooling, ology???

...I mean besides yourself??
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If (and it's a big "if") the proper historical definition of UFO is "alien craft" and if we accept that in common, rather sloppy and confusing usage, many people say UFO when they mean "alien craft," what the hell are we supposed to call airborne objects that we cannot positively identify? UFO-NSIM"U" (unidentified flying object-no, seriously, I mean "unidentified")? Seems a tad cumbersome.
 
Lucian said:
If (and it's a big "if") the proper historical definition of UFO is "alien craft" and if we accept that in common, rather sloppy and confusing usage, many people say UFO when they mean "alien craft," what the hell are we supposed to call airborne objects that we cannot positively identify? UFO-NSIM"U" (unidentified flying object-no, seriously, I mean "unidentified")? Seems a tad cumbersome.
Click to expand...

Unknown Thing In The Sky?
 
ufology said:
You don't find individual records that say it in the exact words you want to see. You need to look at many records and sources. [* More writhing and flailing snipped. *]
Click to expand...


Yeah. Got it. So you are definitively cherry picking.

Did you ever get around to filling us in on the acronym for "unidentified flying object"?
 
Instead of re-defining what words "mean", [ufology], why don't you present credible evidence that aliens exist, and are here?
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed presonal comment


Show us the evidence, and stop playing word "games".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Garrison said:
Mainly because con artists, Ufologists, and sensationalist media have worked hard to create that misunderstanding, frankly it's the only thing Ufologists have achieved in 60 year;, they certainly haven't proven the existence of alien craft flying in Earth's skies. I can only assume since you are flogging this dead horse again you've recognized the failure of your arguments in the Kelly Johnson case.
Click to expand...


Wrong. The development of the word UFO came out of the Air Force as a replacement for the phrase "flying saucers" which had become popular in the media and associated with extraterrestrial visitation. It has since evolved into the topic of ufology, a subject many people find very interesting, enjoyable and educational. For all intents and purposes this entire thread is a discussion in ufology and all the constructive skepticism that has been offered is as much a part of ufology as it is skepticism. As for the "con artists" comment. There have been plenty of con-artists in the sciences too, particularly in medicine, yet you don't see me attacking science and medicine simply because it has been the victim of such con-artists. That would not be fair. Neither is it fair to attack ufology because it has been the victim of con-artists.
 
ufology said:
The development of the word UFO came out of the Air Force as a replacement for the phrase "flying saucers" which had become popular in the media and associated with extraterrestrial visitation.
Click to expand...

If UFO = alien spaceships, then there is no credible evidence for the existence of UFO's.


Do you understand, or will you try and "twist" this into something it is not?
 
For TJW's lenticular cloud, I found the following radiosonde data for Vandenberg AFB:
72393 VBG Vandenberg Afb Observations at 12Z 12 May 2010
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
hPa m C C % g/kg deg knot K K K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1006.0 121 8.6 7.5 93 6.50 320 9 281.3 299.3 282.4
1000.0 149 9.2 8.6 96 7.06 320 12 282.4 301.9 283.6
997.0 174 9.8 9.2 96 7.37 326 13 283.2 303.7 284.4
985.0 275 12.4 4.4 58 5.35 352 18 286.8 302.1 287.7
983.0 292 12.4 4.4 58 5.36 357 19 286.9 302.3 287.9
981.5 305 12.5 4.2 57 5.28 0 20 287.2 302.4 288.1
974.0 369 13.0 3.0 51 4.90 5 21 288.3 302.5 289.2
965.0 447 13.2 2.2 47 4.67 12 21 289.3 302.9 290.1
946.4 610 11.9 1.8 50 4.64 25 23 289.6 303.1 290.4
925.0 801 10.4 1.4 54 4.60 25 25 289.9 303.4 290.7
912.5 914 9.6 1.6 57 4.72 25 27 290.2 304.0 291.0
879.5 1219 7.3 2.0 69 5.07 25 28 290.9 305.8 291.8
875.0 1261 7.0 2.1 71 5.11 22 28 291.0 306.0 291.9
869.0 1318 6.8 2.2 72 5.19 18 27 291.4 306.6 292.3
866.0 1346 6.8 1.8 70 5.06 16 27 291.7 306.5 292.6
850.0 1500 8.0 -5.0 39 3.12 5 25 294.5 304.0 295.1
847.0 1529 8.4 -4.6 39 3.22 4 25 295.2 305.1 295.8
846.0 1539 8.4 -4.6 39 3.23 4 25 295.3 305.2 295.9
816.7 1829 6.4 -6.6 39 2.87 355 27 296.2 305.0 296.7
814.0 1856 6.2 -6.8 39 2.83 353 27 296.3 305.0 296.8
807.0 1927 6.6 -8.4 33 2.52 347 26 297.4 305.3 297.9
789.0 2112 8.0 -14.0 19 1.65 332 25 300.9 306.2 301.1
786.9 2134 8.0 -14.0 19 1.65 330 25 301.1 306.4 301.4
786.0 2143 8.0 -14.0 19 1.66 331 25 301.2 306.6 301.5
758.3 2438 7.1 -17.4 15 1.29 350 20 303.3 307.6 303.6
754.0 2485 7.0 -18.0 15 1.24 350 21 303.7 307.8 303.9
730.5 2743 5.3 -23.8 10 0.77 350 27 304.6 307.3 304.8
704.0 3044 3.4 -30.6 6 0.43 350 26 305.7 307.2 305.8
700.0 3090 3.0 -31.0 6 0.41 350 26 305.8 307.3 305.9
668.0 3466 -0.1 -34.1 6 0.32 350 27 306.4 307.6 306.5
651.9 3658 -1.8 -35.8 5 0.28 350 27 306.7 307.7 306.7
627.2 3962 -4.4 -38.4 5 0.22 355 25 307.1 307.9 307.1
603.4 4267 -7.1 -41.1 5 0.18 350 29 307.4 308.1 307.4
596.0 4364 -7.9 -41.9 5 0.16 350 32 307.5 308.1 307.6
557.8 4877 -8.5 -42.5 5 0.16 350 46 312.7 313.4 312.8
543.0 5086 -8.7 -42.7 4 0.16 343 49 314.9 315.5 314.9
536.2 5182 -9.2 -42.6 5 0.17 340 50 315.4 316.0 315.4
500.0 5720 -12.1 -42.1 6 0.19 335 47 318.2 319.0 318.3
499.0 5735 -12.1 -42.1 6 0.19 335 47 318.4 319.1 318.4
485.0 5952 -14.1 -43.1 7 0.18 335 47 318.6 319.2 318.6
475.7 6096 -15.3 -42.7 8 0.19 335 47 318.9 319.6 318.9
456.5 6401 -17.8 -41.7 10 0.22 325 49 319.5 320.4 319.6
400.0 7380 -25.7 -38.7 29 0.34 330 48 321.5 322.8 321.6
386.9 7620 -28.0 -38.9 34 0.34 330 48 321.6 322.9 321.7
375.0 7845 -30.1 -39.1 41 0.35 330 48 321.7 323.0 321.7
355.2 8230 -33.2 -43.9 33 0.22 330 49 322.5 323.4 322.6
352.0 8293 -33.7 -44.7 32 0.20 330 50 322.7 323.5 322.7
325.4 8839 -37.7 -48.7 31 0.14 330 57 324.5 325.0 324.5
318.0 9000 -38.9 -49.9 30 0.13 338 60 325.0 325.5 325.0
311.4 9144 -39.3 -51.5 26 0.11 345 62 326.4 326.8 326.4
302.0 9355 -39.9 -53.9 21 0.08 345 71 328.4 328.7 328.4
300.0 9400 -40.3 -55.3 19 0.07 345 73 328.4 328.8 328.5
297.8 9449 -40.8 -56.0 18 0.07 345 74 328.5 328.8 328.5
285.0 9746 -43.5 -60.5 14 0.04 350 70 328.7 328.9 328.7
284.7 9754 -43.6 -60.5 14 0.04 350 70 328.7 328.9 328.7
250.0 10610 -51.1 -61.1 29 0.04 345 74 330.0 330.1 330.0
236.0 10981 -54.3 -63.3 32 0.03 347 80 330.6 330.8 330.6
228.0 11201 -56.3 -65.3 31 0.03 348 83 330.8 330.9 330.8
214.5 11582 -59.1 -68.1 30 0.02 350 89 332.3 332.4 332.3
214.0 11597 -59.2 -68.2 30 0.02 350 89 332.4 332.4 332.4
200.0 12020 -62.3 -71.3 29 0.01 350 75 333.9 334.0 333.9
199.0 12051 -62.5 -71.5 29 0.01 350 73 334.1 334.2 334.1
198.0 12082 -62.5 -72.5 25 0.01 350 73 334.6 334.6 334.6
194.5 12192 -62.4 -72.5 24 0.01 350 72 336.4 336.5 336.4
93.3 16764 -58.3 -74.8 10 0.02 280 24 423.1 423.2 423.1
84.6 17374 -57.8 -75.1 9 0.02 285 28 436.3 436.4 436.3
80.5 17678 -57.5 -75.3 9 0.02 305 21 443.0 443.1 443.0
73.0 18288 -56.9 -75.6 8 0.02 290 15 456.7 456.8 456.7
70.0 18550 -56.7 -75.7 7 0.02 280 14 462.7 462.9 462.7
69.5 18593 -56.8 -75.8 7 0.02 295 18 463.5 463.7 463.5
66.2 18898 -57.1 -76.1 7 0.02 310 18 469.2 469.4 469.2
63.1 19202 -57.4 -76.4 7 0.02 300 13 475.0 475.1 475.0
55.9 19970 -58.3 -77.3 7 0.02 287 11 489.8 489.9 489.8
54.6 20117 -57.3 -76.5 7 0.02 285 11 495.4 495.6 495.4
52.1 20422 -55.1 -74.8 7 0.03 240 10 507.2 507.4 507.2
50.0 20680 -53.3 -73.3 7 0.04 235 7 517.4 517.7 517.4
48.5 20877 -53.1 -73.1 7 0.04 255 9 522.4 522.7 522.4
47.4 21031 -53.4 -73.4 7 0.04 270 11 525.2 525.5 525.2
45.1 21336 -54.1 -74.1 7 0.04 305 18 530.9 531.1 530.9
43.1 21641 -54.7 -74.7 7 0.04 350 11 536.5 536.8 536.5
41.1 21946 -55.4 -75.4 7 0.03 120 11 542.2 542.5 542.2
39.5 22195 -55.9 -75.9 6 0.03 149 10 546.9 547.2 546.9
39.2 22250 -55.7 -75.8 6 0.03 155 10 548.7 548.9 548.7
37.4 22555 -54.9 -75.3 6 0.04 330 11 558.3 558.6 558.3
30.0 23970 -50.9 -72.9 6 0.07 0 5 605.3 605.9 605.3
29.1 24168 -50.3 -72.3 6 0.08 5 6 612.2 612.9 612.2
28.1 24384 -50.4 -72.4 6 0.08 10 8 617.8 618.5 617.8
23.5 25557 -50.9 -72.9 6 0.09 328 11 649.0 649.8 649.0
22.3 25908 -50.1 -72.1 6 0.10 315 12 661.4 662.4 661.5
20.0 26610 -48.5 -70.5 6 0.14 340 5 687.0 688.3 687.0
18.6 27087 -46.7 -69.7 6 0.17 340 8 707.0 708.7 707.0
17.6 27432 -48.1 -70.5 6 0.16 340 10 713.3 714.9 713.4
17.1 27640 -48.9 -70.9 6 0.16 320 10 717.1 718.7 717.2
16.9 27737 -48.4 -70.6 6 0.17 310 10 721.7 723.4 721.8
15.4 28346 -45.6 -68.5 6 0.24 305 21 750.4 752.9 750.5
15.4 28329 -45.5 -68.5 6 0.24 305 21 750.1 752.6 750.2
14.7 28651 -47.1 -69.3 6 0.23 325 44 755.2 757.6 755.3
14.5 28727 -47.5 -69.5 6 0.23 338 40 756.4 758.8 756.5
14.0 28956 -47.0 -69.2 6 0.24 15 30 765.5 768.1 765.6
13.4 29261 -46.4 -68.7 6 0.27 10 25 777.8 780.8 778.0
12.8 29566 -45.8 -68.3 6 0.30 315 24 790.4 793.7 790.5
12.2 29870 -45.1 -67.9 6 0.34 320 18 803.0 806.8 803.2
11.7 30175 -44.5 -67.4 6 0.38 330 18 815.9 820.1 816.1
11.5 30263 -44.3 -67.3 6 0.39 329 17 819.7 824.0 819.9
11.2 30439 -44.3 -67.3 6 0.40 326 15 825.9 830.4 826.1
11.1 30480 -44.3 -67.3 6 0.40 325 14 827.5 832.1 827.7
10.9 30621 -44.1 -67.1 6 0.42 318 14 833.0 837.9 833.2
10.6 30785 -43.2 -66.5 6 0.47 310 13 842.0 847.4 842.2
10.2 31090 -41.7 -65.5 6 0.56 185 15 858.8 865.5 859.1
10.0 31200 -41.1 -65.1 6 0.60 135 3 865.0 872.1 865.3
9.5 31550 -38.7 -63.7 5 0.77 886.8 896.0 887.2
72393 VBG Vandenberg Afb Observations at 12Z 13 May 2010
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
hPa m C C % g/kg deg knot K K K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1002.0 121 9.4 6.9 84 6.26 320 5 282.4 299.9 283.5
1000.0 120 9.4 7.7 89 6.63 325 5 282.6 301.0 283.7
994.0 170 9.0 8.5 97 7.05 332 5 282.6 302.2 283.8
977.9 305 8.1 7.5 96 6.71 350 6 283.0 301.7 284.2
956.0 492 6.8 6.2 96 6.25 2 7 283.6 301.1 284.6
954.0 509 7.0 6.6 97 6.45 3 7 283.9 302.0 285.1
944.0 596 8.6 5.2 79 5.91 9 8 286.4 303.2 287.4
942.5 610 9.0 4.7 75 5.72 10 8 286.9 303.3 287.9
932.0 703 11.4 1.4 50 4.56 34 9 290.3 303.7 291.1
930.0 721 12.2 1.2 47 4.51 38 9 291.3 304.6 292.1
925.0 766 13.2 2.2 47 4.87 50 9 292.8 307.2 293.7
912.0 885 15.0 3.0 44 5.23 50 11 295.8 311.5 296.8
908.9 914 14.8 2.9 45 5.22 50 11 295.9 311.5 296.8
876.4 1219 12.4 2.1 49 5.10 45 12 296.5 311.8 297.4
850.0 1476 10.4 1.4 54 5.01 70 5 297.0 312.1 297.9
845.1 1524 10.1 1.1 54 4.92 50 10 297.2 312.0 298.1
814.5 1829 8.0 -1.0 53 4.38 345 11 298.1 311.4 298.9
812.0 1855 7.8 -1.2 53 4.34 345 11 298.2 311.4 299.0
799.0 1987 7.0 -7.0 36 2.84 345 11 298.7 307.6 299.2
795.0 2028 6.6 -4.4 45 3.49 345 11 298.7 309.4 299.3
794.0 2039 6.6 -4.4 45 3.49 345 11 298.8 309.6 299.4
793.0 2049 6.4 -4.6 45 3.44 345 11 298.7 309.3 299.3
784.8 2134 6.7 -19.9 13 1.01 345 11 299.9 303.3 300.1
782.0 2164 6.8 -25.2 8 0.64 345 10 300.3 302.5 300.4
780.0 2185 6.8 -25.2 8 0.64 346 10 300.6 302.7 300.7
756.1 2438 5.8 -29.9 6 0.43 350 5 302.2 303.7 302.2
728.4 2743 4.6 -35.5 4 0.26 350 13 304.1 305.1 304.2
723.0 2803 4.4 -36.6 3 0.23 347 15 304.5 305.4 304.5
701.5 3048 2.9 -35.3 4 0.27 335 21 305.5 306.5 305.5
700.0 3065 2.8 -35.2 4 0.28 335 20 305.6 306.6 305.6
699.0 3077 2.8 -30.2 7 0.45 335 20 305.7 307.3 305.8
697.0 3100 2.4 -13.6 30 1.93 335 20 305.5 311.8 305.8
690.0 3181 1.6 -12.4 35 2.15 335 20 305.5 312.5 305.9
675.4 3353 0.1 -13.0 37 2.08 335 19 305.6 312.4 306.0
674.0 3369 -0.1 -13.1 37 2.08 334 19 305.6 312.4 306.0
649.7 3658 -2.5 -14.0 41 2.00 325 20 306.2 312.8 306.6
625.1 3962 -4.9 -15.0 45 1.92 310 18 306.8 313.1 307.1
601.4 4267 -7.4 -15.9 50 1.84 300 15 307.3 313.4 307.6
593.0 4377 -8.3 -16.3 53 1.81 289 14 307.5 313.5 307.8
578.2 4572 -10.0 -16.0 62 1.91 270 12 307.8 314.1 308.1
567.0 4723 -11.3 -15.7 70 2.00 295 13 307.9 314.5 308.3
561.0 4805 -11.5 -15.3 73 2.09 308 14 308.6 315.5 309.0
555.7 4877 -11.8 -15.8 72 2.01 320 15 309.1 315.8 309.5
518.0 5413 -13.9 -19.9 60 1.53 316 19 312.9 318.1 313.1
513.0 5486 -14.4 -20.1 62 1.52 315 20 313.1 318.3 313.4
500.0 5680 -15.9 -20.5 68 1.51 330 22 313.6 318.7 313.9
495.0 5756 -16.3 -20.0 73 1.59 337 21 314.0 319.4 314.3
492.7 5791 -16.5 -20.5 71 1.53 340 20 314.2 319.5 314.5
473.1 6096 -18.0 -24.7 56 1.10 310 27 316.0 319.9 316.2
464.0 6242 -18.7 -26.7 49 0.93 312 29 316.9 320.2 317.1
463.0 6259 -18.9 -27.9 45 0.84 313 30 316.8 319.8 317.0
460.0 6307 -18.5 -34.5 23 0.45 313 30 317.9 319.6 318.0
456.0 6373 -19.1 -43.1 10 0.19 315 32 317.9 318.7 318.0
454.3 6401 -19.2 -43.9 9 0.17 315 32 318.1 318.8 318.2
438.0 6673 -20.5 -51.5 4 0.08 324 31 319.9 320.2 319.9
436.0 6706 -20.6 -51.0 5 0.08 325 31 320.1 320.4 320.1
435.0 6724 -20.7 -50.7 5 0.08 325 31 320.2 320.6 320.2
418.4 7010 -23.0 -52.1 5 0.07 325 28 320.8 321.1 320.9
401.4 7315 -25.5 -53.6 5 0.06 310 27 321.4 321.7 321.5
400.0 7340 -25.7 -53.7 5 0.06 325 22 321.5 321.8 321.5
384.4 7620 -28.0 -53.7 7 0.07 335 33 322.1 322.4 322.2
368.2 7925 -30.5 -53.7 8 0.07 310 36 322.8 323.1 322.9
352.6 8230 -33.0 -53.7 11 0.07 335 35 323.5 323.8 323.5
325.0 8805 -37.7 -53.7 17 0.08 316 27 324.6 324.9 324.6
323.4 8839 -38.0 -53.6 18 0.08 315 27 324.6 325.0 324.7
309.2 9144 -40.8 -52.8 27 0.09 340 26 324.9 325.3 324.9
302.0 9305 -42.3 -52.3 33 0.10 324 23 325.0 325.4 325.0
300.0 9350 -42.9 -50.9 41 0.12 320 22 324.8 325.3 324.8
295.6 9449 -43.8 -50.2 49 0.13 320 25 324.9 325.4 324.9
290.0 9578 -44.9 -49.4 61 0.15 320 24 325.1 325.7 325.1
282.4 9754 -46.6 -50.7 63 0.13 320 22 325.1 325.7 325.2
269.6 10058 -49.5 -53.0 67 0.10 330 29 325.2 325.6 325.2
263.0 10222 -51.1 -54.2 69 0.09 325 30 325.2 325.6 325.2
262.0 10247 -51.3 -54.5 68 0.09 324 30 325.3 325.6 325.3
257.3 10363 -52.1 -56.3 60 0.07 320 30 325.8 326.1 325.8
250.0 10550 -53.3 -59.3 48 0.05 315 25 326.7 326.9 326.7
245.4 10668 -54.2 -60.7 45 0.04 315 26 327.1 327.3 327.1
241.0 10785 -55.1 -62.1 41 0.04 317 27 327.4 327.6 327.4
233.9 10973 -56.2 -64.0 37 0.03 320 29 328.5 328.6 328.5
222.9 11278 -58.1 -67.2 30 0.02 345 42 330.2 330.3 330.2
216.0 11478 -59.3 -69.3 26 0.02 340 31 331.3 331.4 331.3
212.4 11582 -59.3 -70.6 22 0.01 340 31 332.9 333.0 332.9
202.3 11887 -59.3 -74.4 12 0.01 305 32 337.6 337.6 337.6
200.0 11960 -59.3 -75.3 11 0.01 305 32 338.7 338.7 338.7
198.0 12023 -59.3 -75.3 11 0.01 304 32 339.7 339.7 339.7
192.8 12192 -57.5 -76.5 7 0.01 300 33 345.1 345.2 345.1
191.0 12250 -56.9 -76.9 6 0.01 303 32 347.0 347.1 347.0
190.0 12283 -56.9 -76.9 6 0.01 304 31 347.6 347.6 347.6
183.7 12497 -57.5 -78.4 5 0.00 315 27 349.9 349.9 349.9
176.0 12767 -58.3 -80.3 4 0.00 293 26 352.9 353.0 352.9
175.0 12802 -58.2 -80.3 4 0.00 290 26 353.7 353.8 353.7
166.8 13106 -56.9 -80.3 4 0.00 300 24 360.7 360.7 360.7
163.0 13253 -56.3 -80.3 3 0.00 300 25 364.1 364.1 364.1
150.0 13780 -57.3 -81.3 3 0.00 300 30 371.1 371.2 371.2
144.3 14021 -57.9 -81.2 4 0.00 305 29 374.2 374.2 374.2
137.4 14326 -58.7 -81.0 4 0.00 280 24 378.0 378.0 378.0
124.7 14935 -60.3 -80.8 5 0.00 290 36 385.8 385.8 385.8
122.0 15071 -60.7 -80.7 6 0.00 286 34 387.5 387.6 387.5
118.7 15240 -60.0 -80.0 6 0.01 280 32 391.9 391.9 391.9
114.0 15493 -58.9 -78.9 6 0.01 292 31 398.4 398.5 398.4
113.1 15545 -59.0 -78.8 6 0.01 295 31 399.1 399.2 399.1
110.0 15716 -59.5 -78.5 7 0.01 289 32 401.4 401.5 401.4
107.7 15850 -59.5 -78.5 7 0.01 285 32 403.8 403.9 403.8
102.5 16154 -59.6 -78.7 7 0.01 285 23 409.3 409.3 409.3
100.0 16310 -59.7 -78.7 7 0.01 290 26 412.1 412.2 412.1
97.7 16459 -59.6 -78.6 7 0.01 300 21 415.1 415.2 415.1
93.1 16764 -59.3 -78.3 7 0.01 270 23 421.4 421.4 421.4
88.7 17069 -59.1 -78.1 7 0.01 305 14 427.7 427.8 427.7
84.5 17374 -58.9 -77.8 7 0.01 260 17 434.2 434.2 434.2
80.5 17678 -58.6 -77.6 7 0.01 280 18 440.7 440.8 440.7
76.7 17983 -58.4 -77.4 7 0.01 265 17 447.3 447.4 447.3
73.1 18288 -58.1 -77.1 7 0.01 295 18 454.1 454.2 454.1
70.0 18560 -57.9 -76.9 7 0.02 295 10 460.2 460.3 460.2
68.6 18688 -57.9 -76.9 7 0.02 291 11 462.8 462.9 462.8
66.4 18898 -57.0 -76.6 7 0.02 285 12 469.2 469.3 469.2
63.3 19202 -55.7 -76.1 6 0.02 305 12 478.4 478.6 478.4
60.9 19444 -54.7 -75.7 6 0.02 285 12 486.0 486.1 486.0
60.3 19507 -54.9 -75.8 6 0.02 280 12 486.8 487.0 486.8
55.5 20036 -56.9 -76.9 6 0.02 267 14 494.0 494.1 494.0
54.8 20117 -56.7 -76.7 6 0.02 265 14 496.2 496.3 496.2
52.2 20422 -56.1 -76.1 6 0.02 275 13 504.5 504.7 504.5
50.0 20700 -55.5 -75.5 7 0.03 255 10 512.2 512.5 512.3
49.8 20726 -55.4 -75.5 7 0.03 260 10 513.0 513.2 513.0
45.3 21336 -53.8 -74.5 6 0.03 300 8 531.3 531.5 531.3
43.6 21574 -53.1 -74.1 6 0.04 73 10 538.6 538.9 538.6
43.1 21641 -53.4 -74.3 6 0.04 110 10 539.4 539.7 539.4
40.0 22124 -55.7 -75.7 7 0.03 205 11 545.5 545.7 545.5
39.2 22250 -55.1 -75.2 6 0.04 230 11 550.1 550.4 550.1
35.1 22960 -51.7 -72.7 6 0.06 152 10 576.6 577.1 576.7
34.0 23165 -52.1 -73.1 6 0.06 130 10 580.9 581.3 580.9
32.4 23470 -52.7 -73.7 6 0.05 165 10 587.2 587.7 587.2
30.4 23885 -53.5 -74.5 6 0.05 194 7 595.9 596.4 596.0
30.0 23970 -53.1 -74.1 6 0.06 200 6 599.3 599.8 599.3
28.7 24256 -50.7 -72.7 6 0.07 286 5 613.5 614.2 613.6
28.1 24384 -50.7 -72.7 6 0.07 325 4 617.1 617.8 617.1
25.6 24994 -50.5 -72.5 6 0.08 160 14 634.3 635.1 634.4
24.4 25298 -50.4 -72.4 6 0.09 175 16 643.1 643.9 643.1
22.2 25908 -50.3 -72.3 6 0.10 300 12 661.1 662.0 661.1
21.2 26213 -50.2 -72.2 6 0.10 315 10 670.2 671.2 670.3
20.0 26600 -50.1 -72.1 6 0.11 355 7 682.1 683.1 682.1
18.0 27287 -50.5 -72.5 6 0.12 289 5 701.6 702.8 701.7
17.6 27432 -49.2 -71.2 6 0.15 275 4 710.2 711.7 710.3
17.0 27663 -47.1 -69.1 6 0.20 279 6 724.1 726.1 724.2
15.3 28346 -46.0 -68.3 6 0.25 290 11 749.1 751.7 749.2
14.7 28651 -45.5 -67.9 6 0.28 325 13 760.5 763.5 760.7
11.6 30215 -43.1 -66.1 6 0.45 821.9 827.0 822.2

I am not sure how this helps. Vandenberg is quite far off from Santa Barbara. These things are probably very localized under certain conditions.
 
Lucian said:
If (and it's a big "if") the proper historical definition of UFO is "alien craft" and if we accept that in common, rather sloppy and confusing usage, many people say UFO when they mean "alien craft," what the hell are we supposed to call airborne objects that we cannot positively identify?
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wotnots

:D
 
ufology said:
The fact is that ( as your peers have pointed out ) as words come into common usage and take on a common meaning over time and become accepted in use by the vast majority of people, then those words evolve and become defined as what people actually use it for. In the case of the word UFO, it has origins in the phrase "flying saucer" because it is exactly that particular phrase that the acronym UFO was meant to replace. Why? Because as another observant poster here pointed out, it is less "loaded" with respect to the issue than "flying saucers", which is exactly what the USAF ( which created the acronym UFO ) had set out to investigate. They were investigating UFOs ( or flying saucers to everyone else ), and just because the Air Force slapped a politically correct military acronym on it to help downplay the phenomenon doesn't mean we don't see right through it. Not to mention ( again ) that the phrase flying saucer in today's dictionaries is synonymous with UFO. So to answer your question, yes I understand and you can repeat your error all you want and you still won't be correct. But I will be. I don't have a shred of evidence to back my claim that some UFOs are alien craft, so I'll stubbornly screw around with this dishonest diversion to avoid having to grapple with reality and honestly admit it.
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There's "ufologese" translated into English, which is clearly a more efficient way to communicate. It's honest and it takes far fewer words.

Have you given us the abbreviation for "unidentified flying object" yet? Or is that another one of those things, like math, that "ufologists" willfully ignore?
 
R.A.F. said:
Instead of re-defining what words "mean", [ufology], why don't you present credible evidence that aliens exist, and are here?
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed personal comment


Show us the evidence, and stop playing word "games".
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So far as I know, there is no verifiable material scientific evidence that is sufficient enough to prove alien craft have visited planet Earth. If this changes I'l be sure to let you know. In the meantime, this is a discussion thread and words are what we mostly use here, so if we need to make ourselves clearer by using definitions and references, then that does not constitute a "word game". It is conveying a thought, experience or idea.
 
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ufology said:
Wrong. The development of the word UFO came out of the Air Force as a replacement for the phrase "flying saucers" which had become popular in the media and associated with extraterrestrial visitation.
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You are truly hopeless, you keep trying this in some sort of hope that it will spare you addressing the utter lack of evidence for 'alien craft'. No one here is buying it. It's an insistence based on 60 years of failure by every so called ufologist to come up with anything beyond special pleading to justify their belief in alien craft.


It has since evolved into the topic of ufology, a subject many people find very interesting, enjoyable and educational.
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The first two perhaps, the third is impossible until Ufologists actually start doing some proper research but as you yourself have demonstrated it's easier to try and redefine terms and claim victory.


For all intents and purposes this entire thread is a discussion in ufology and all the constructive skepticism that has been offered is as much a part of ufology as it is skepticism.
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Utter nonsense, skepticism is anathema to Ufology, which is based on a mix of credulity and deception, sometimes self deception some times the deception of others.

As for the "con artists" comment. There have been plenty of con-artists in the sciences too, particularly in medicine, yet you don't see me attacking science and medicine simply because it has been the victim of such con-artists.
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Because the field of medicine isn't dominated by them, and medicine being a science the charlatans get weeded out. Ufology being a pseudoscience the charlatans are at best glossed over and at worst used as a basis for yet further deception.

That would not be fair. Neither is it fair to attack ufology because it has been the victim of con-artists.
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Ufology has largely been created by con artists; either manufacturing stories out of whole cloth or turning other peoples mistakes and misperceptions into alien spacecraft.
 
ufology said:
...there is no verifiable material scientific evidence that is sufficient enough to prove alien craft have visited planet Earth.
Click to expand...

Since you agree there is no credible evidence for the existence of visiting alien spaceships, what is the point of this idiotic thread?
 
ufology said:
The fact is that ( as your peers have pointed out ) as words come into common usage and take on a common meaning over time and become accepted in use by the vast majority of people, then those words evolve and become defined as what people actually use it for. In the case of the word UFO, it has origins in the phrase "flying saucer" because it is exactly that particular phrase that the acronym UFO was meant to replace. Why? Because as another observant poster here pointed out, it is less "loaded" with respect to the issue than "flying saucers", which is exactly what the USAF ( which created the acronym UFO ) had set out to investigate. They were investigating UFOs ( or flying saucers to everyone else ), and just because the Air Force slapped a politically correct military acronym on it to help downplay the phenomenon doesn't mean we don't see right through it. Not to mention ( again ) that the phrase flying saucer in today's dictionaries is synonymous with UFO. So to answer your question, yes I understand and you can repeat your error all you want and you still won't be correct. But I will be.
Click to expand...


Wait...did you just define aliens into existence?
 
ufology said:
So far as I know, there is no verifiable material scientific evidence that is sufficient enough to prove alien craft have visited planet Earth.
Click to expand...

Oh, good. I guess we can all stop posting in this thread then. At least until there is such evidence.
 
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