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UFO help needed!!!

Mercutio said:
Claus, you short-sighted Flodin, you... :) The real article here, I humbly suggest, is on Kitty's work as the UFO expert, and her experiences with the individuals who come to her. It sounds like there is quite an art to telling people "yes, you saw something, but it was most likely not what you thought it was" without them hearing an implicit ", you idiot". And it sounds like Kitty does it well.

Anyway, that's the article I want Kitty to write...maybe as a chapter in the book G6 proposed...remember that?

Well, I just wanted to give Kitty some room here, but nooooo, you had to go and spoil all that. (OK, it sounds like a good idea, but that's not the point! I can't gripe if I agree with you!)

Kitty? 26th. On my desk. (your article, I mean....!!!!)
 
CFLarsen said:
Well, I just wanted to give Kitty some room here, but nooooo, you had to go and spoil all that. (OK, it sounds like a good idea, but that's not the point! I can't gripe if I agree with you!)

Kitty? 26th. On my desk. (your article, I mean....!!!!)
CFL, you wanted to give an artist more room to work? And you expect something on the 26th?

(oh, and Kitty, if Kitten's schedule does not allow her to edit, I certainly can help. You don't mind if the final product is in iambic pentameter, do you?)
 
Mercutio said:
CFL, you wanted to give an artist more room to work? And you expect something on the 26th?

You'd be amazed at the number of great works of art that had a deadline... :)

Mercutio said:
(oh, and Kitty, if Kitten's schedule does not allow her to edit, I certainly can help. You don't mind if the final product is in iambic pentameter, do you?)

........I would. :)

kittynh said:
The 26th of November????

right........

July, 2004. This dimension.

kittynh said:
right........

Excellent! :)
 
so like.....

since I don't write, and my colorful collage showing the interaction between UFOs and my inbox is taking longer than I expected....

How many words and where do I send it?

The article is free, but if I use my real name on the illustration my agent gets a cut.:D

Oddly enough, by real name, I mean my professional name.

See, I'm already confused.

"Once upon a time there was a sad group of orphaned baby guinea pigs...."

(this is not going well)
 
Soapy Sam said:
I've seen two things that fit the description.
1. Lasers (or very bright lights) used at an outdoor concert, projected on low cloud.
(snip)
Outdoor laser displays are regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and (I believe) the Food & Drug Administration (FDA).

If the sighting was the result of a (legal) outdoor laser display, there would be records on file with these organizations.
 
Mr. Skinny said:
Outdoor laser displays are regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and (I believe) the Food & Drug Administration (FDA).

If the sighting was the result of a (legal) outdoor laser display, there would be records on file with these organizations.
Agreed .. I tend to lean toward a laser display explanation based on the description, and accessing the pertinent records (if it was sanctioned) would officially put this to bed. The other guesses? possible ET? :scoff: Spotlights? Possible, but doubtful in my opinion and kinda lame. To me it sounds like a lazy excuse to brush the whole thing off based on the unsupported presumption that the observer doesn't know what spotlights look like. Multiple spotlights that move aren't exactly an unknown to even those less skeptical than we are. The jet theory ignores the fact that they make distinctive "jet noises" .. so what's left? lasers or fabrication.
 
Archer17 said:
Spotlights? Possible, but doubtful in my opinion and kinda lame. To me it sounds like a lazy excuse to brush the whole thing off based on the unsupported presumption that the observer doesn't know what spotlights look like. Multiple spotlights that move aren't exactly an unknown to even those less skeptical than we are.
Um...they thoroughly creeped me out when I saw them. The display I saw moved in a way I had never seen before (nor ever since, come to think of it).
 
well, and add in cloud cover, or weird conditions. People just aren't used to looking at the night sky. I try to look outside a little bit each night it is clear. I live far from light pollution (except for my neighbors stupid garage light), and I always see stuff I can't explain.

Take for example the "Brown Mountain Lights" of North Carolina. It's car head lights and train lights (though they have been "reported" by the Native Americans far back in history....right). You would think people would know what a car head light looks like, even from a distance. But because of the way the area is situated, people are still being fooled.
 
Mercutio said:
Um...they thoroughly creeped me out when I saw them. The display I saw moved in a way I had never seen before (nor ever since, come to think of it).
I'm not doubting that spotlights could fool some .. I'm just not comfortable with this "knee-jerk" explanation. I'd feel the same way if "swamp gas" was cited. The bottom line is this phenomenon was most likely a ground-based light show .. the type of light is open to debate. I just ain't buying the spotlight spiel. Sounds like lazy skepticism to me.
 
The thing to remember also is that if someone is asking me what they saw, they have looked for a UFO "expert". That means they are thinking it could be a UFO. There are astronomical experts they can ask too, when I'm chosen, I know they are at least thinking aliens.
 
Archer17 said:
I'm not doubting that spotlights could fool some .. I'm just not comfortable with this "knee-jerk" explanation. I'd feel the same way if "swamp gas" was cited. The bottom line is this phenomenon was most likely a ground-based light show .. the type of light is open to debate. I just ain't buying the spotlight spiel. Sounds like lazy skepticism to me.
I can understand that. I have a different take on it, though, more in line with Bayesian inference. The most common of the proposed explanations, in my opinion (take that for what it is worth--this in itself is merely a heuristic guess), the spotlight explanation. Certainly more common than a laser show, a flight of blimps, small aircraft... (yes, this does depend on where you are)...so even if the likelihood of misinterpretation is low, the population of events is larger, and the conditional probability seems greater. Not lazy skepticism, just starting with the most common possibility; if and when we can eliminate that, move on.
 
Mercutio said:
I can understand that. I have a different take on it, though, more in line with Bayesian inference. The most common of the proposed explanations, in my opinion (take that for what it is worth--this in itself is merely a heuristic guess), the spotlight explanation. Certainly more common than a laser show, a flight of blimps, small aircraft... (yes, this does depend on where you are)...so even if the likelihood of misinterpretation is low, the population of events is larger, and the conditional probability seems greater. Not lazy skepticism, just starting with the most common possibility; if and when we can eliminate that, move on.
Bayesian inference? Sounds deep. I'll have to look that up. In the mean time, you think someone would be snookered by a spotlight? Like I said, it's possible, but my laser endorsement makes better sense. Blimps, small aircraft aside (which is irrelevant since blimps weren't mentioned and, outside of one poster, high performance aircraft weren't considered as an explanation), I think your reference to what is "most common" makes my case .. lazy skepticism. If you are going to seriously tell me that you think someone doesn't know the difference between a spotlight(s) and an pontential extraterrestrial craft then you are more cynical than I am. I'm only proposing they don't know the difference between a laser image and potential extraterrestrial craft ..;)
 
Archer17 said:
If you are going to seriously tell me that you think someone doesn't know the difference between a spotlight(s) and an pontential extraterrestrial craft then you are more cynical than I am. I'm only proposing they don't know the difference between a laser image and potential extraterrestrial craft ..;)
LOL...I am telling you that someone might confuse a particular type of spotlight display with a potential extraterrestrial craft, yes. But only because of my own personal experience with precisely that reaction! I was truly and honestly freaked out by the display (I suppose I should go into more detail--as Kittynh guesses, it was on a cloudy night. The lights whirled around each other against the background of the clouds, such that the lights grew and shrank and moved...of course, size, speed, and distance are only interpreted in our visual system by visual angle, so variations in size can be interpreted as changes in direction and speed...in addition, their distance from me was unknown. Without a known size, the distance could only be guessed; in my case, I guessed wrong, apparently, because I thought I'd be approaching it quickly. Instead, it appeared to stay ahead of me much longer than I thought it should; the perception, of course, was that it was moving away from me. At this point, despite my skeptical credentials, my pulse was racing, my breath more shallow, and I was starting to really freak out. Mrs. Mercutio was asleep in the passenger's seat, so I had no other witness to check my own perceptions against. I was honestly relieved, if a bit embarassed, to find that I had been fooled by spotlights.).

So, humilating as it may be, I advanced this explanation because it happened to me. Had I turned off the highway before I found out the truth, I might not have this explanation, and I might scoff at it as you do. I'd thumb my nose at the silly attempt to explain so remarkable experience with such a mundane reality. But, in fact, while it may not be the explanation for Kittynh's eyewitness, it is a perfectly adequate and parsimonious explanation for the experience.

I would also suggest, Archer17, that you look at the number of different objects that have been reported as UFO's over the years. (If memory serves, there are stories of law enforcement officers on a high-speed, interstate chase of...the planet Venus. The UFO reported by President Jimmy Carter was also Venus.) Here and here are a couple of places to start. Our visual system is imperfect, especially under dim or dark conditions, and what we see is coloured by our expectations (and once the "maybe it's a UFO" idea pops in, it is very easy to look for confirmatory evidence).

This is not lazy skepticism. This is skepticism based on a thorough understanding of perceptual systems, and an attempt to be parsimonious. Looking for a more complex and less common explanation just because you refuse to believe that one could be fooled by spotlights seems odd to me.
 
Archer17,

I must admit that your response to Merc's idea seems rash and unnecessarily hostile. You appear to want to insult rather than debate.

May I suggest that you take it down a notch? After all this is not important enough to get heated up over. A simple query by Kittynh and some ideas for her to consider, that's all. A reasonable discussion will produce more information.

Larry
 

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