Truzzi on Randi & Geller

Posted by Marcello Truzzi

At the same time that I don't believe in Uri's powers, I also do not believe his major claims have truly been disproved; that is, I don't think Randi and the others really have the smoking guns they imagine. Of course, I am talking here about his best effects...

The total situation with Uri is enormously complicated and probably involves some aspects of government disinformation, especially what happened at SRI
Wasn't Truzzi a founding CSICOP member who split with CSICOP (and Randi, too, I think) over what he felt was the mistaken belief that everything paranormal has to logically be untrue?

Didn't Truzzi still consider himself a skeptic, but repudiated CSICOP's/Randi's version of "skepticism" as being too dogmatic?

I wonder what he meant (in the above) about Geller's major claims for his abilities not being really debunked?


edited into past tense, thanks to JamesM flagging Truzzi's demise...:rs:
 
Re: Re: Truzzi on Randi & Geller

Jeff Corey said:

Even more interesting comments can be accessed on the home page of that site under "Magicians and Uri Geller".

The fact remains, no one can actually do exactly what Uri does. As Peter Duffie says: "The very idea that one simply has to create a method that "resembles" the phenomenon = fraud, is totally silly. "

Or the account by Allan Slaight

"I am a true skeptic and had also read books and viewed videos on how magicians bend keys.

Uri got in my car, pulled a spoon from the hotel from his pocket and asked me to examine it. It was solid and hard to bend by force. He held it between one finger and thumb by the bowl and g-e-n-t-l-y rubbed it with a finger of his other hand. It began to bend!

Then he placed it on the dashboard near the windshield and as I watched, the spoon bent by itself until it was at a ninety degree angle. I was later told that this is referred as "after bending" although I had not heard of it or had it described before. "
 
Clancie said:



I wonder what he means about Geller's major claims for his abilities not being really debunked?

He's right. They haven't been properly debunked. Most people don't get much further than the slapstick which surrounds the whole story. But if you are prepared to do some unbiased research, you will discover that there is more to this than you may have been lead to believe. There was also a significant involvement with the CIA/Mossad back in the 70's, and this, no doubt has muddied the waters somewhat.
 
Re: Re: Re: Truzzi on Randi & Geller

Lucianarchy said:
The fact remains, no one can actually do exactly what Uri does.

Well, I'm still waiting for Uri to use his tremendous silverware-bending powers for the good of the world. Is that literally all he can do with his gift from (God/angels/aliens/Ba'al)?

I mean, that's a pretty lame-o superpower. I can bend spoons, too.
 
Clancie said:
Doesn't Truzzi still consider himself a skeptic, but repudiates CSICOP's/Randi's version of "skepticism" as being too dogmatic?
He's, erm, dead.

I suppose he could still be a skeptic. But that'd be pretty dogmatic.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Truzzi on Randi & Geller

LFTKBS said:


Well, I'm still waiting for Uri to use his tremendous silverware-bending powers for the good of the world. Is that literally all he can do with his gift from (God/angels/aliens/Ba'al)?

I mean, that's a pretty lame-o superpower. I can bend spoons, too.

It's not so much the effect, as the fact that it happens and cannot be sufficiently explained.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Truzzi on Randi & Geller

Lucianarchy said:


It's not so much the effect, as the fact that it happens and cannot be sufficiently explained.

Hasn't he said that things can happen around him without him actually willing it to happen? That is the "after bending" thing, I believe.
 
Lucianarchy said:
The fact remains, no one can actually do exactly what Uri does. As Peter Duffie says: "The very idea that one simply has to create a method that "resembles" the phenomenon = fraud, is totally silly. "

Or the account by Allan Slaight

"I am a true skeptic and had also read books and viewed videos on how magicians bend keys.

Uri got in my car, pulled a spoon from the hotel from his pocket and asked me to examine it. It was solid and hard to bend by force. He held it between one finger and thumb by the bowl and g-e-n-t-l-y rubbed it with a finger of his other hand. It began to bend!

Then he placed it on the dashboard near the windshield and as I watched, the spoon bent by itself until it was at a ninety degree angle. I was later told that this is referred as "after bending" although I had not heard of it or had it described before. "

The fact remains that people can do exactly what Uri Geller does.

I have seen this trick performed by the Danish magician, Niels Krøjgaard. Up close. Real close. He has also done it on Danish TV.

It is a very cool trick, but I can't tell you how it is done (forum rules). However, a quick Google will do wonders...

Lucianarchy said:
It's not so much the effect, as the fact that it happens and cannot be sufficiently explained.

Sure, it can. The guy who sells the cutlery is on the Internet...
 
CFLarsen said:



Sure, it can. The guy who sells the cutlery is on the Internet...

Back of a match-box stuff. It is not the same thing at all.

"The visibly shocked Mayor said "I was just leaning forward to reach for the pepper when I heard and felt a rattle and found the back of the Jewel hanging outward and bending. It continued bending for a few minutes. My attendant David Ramsey, who has looked after the Jewel for more than 20 years, said he could not believe it had disintegrated because it had been as solid as a granite when he put it around my neck. I know some people say Geller is a magician but I don’t. I accept that he has psychic powers; he had not touched the jewel at any time.""

The Daily Post UK
12 Dec 2000
 
Lucianarchy said:
Back of a match-box stuff. It is not the same thing at all.

Oh, it is exactly the same thing: A spoon bending while nobody is touching it. Very dramatic, not at all paranormal.

How do you explain that, Lucianarchy? How do you explain that magician Niels Krøjgaard can perform exactly the same trick on Danish TV that Uri Geller did before Allan Slaigh's eyes?

Lucianarchy said:
"The visibly shocked Mayor said "I was just leaning forward to reach for the pepper when I heard and felt a rattle and found the back of the Jewel hanging outward and bending. It continued bending for a few minutes. My attendant David Ramsey, who has looked after the Jewel for more than 20 years, said he could not believe it had disintegrated because it had been as solid as a granite when he put it around my neck. I know some people say Geller is a magician but I don’t. I accept that he has psychic powers; he had not touched the jewel at any time.""

The Daily Post UK
12 Dec 2000

What are you talking about? Link?
 
CFLarsen said:


Oh, it is exactly the same thing: A spoon bending while nobody is touching it. Very dramatic, not at all paranormal.

How do you explain that, Lucianarchy? How do you explain that magician Niels Krøjgaard can perform exactly the same trick on Danish TV that Uri Geller did before Allan Slaigh's eyes?

He uses a trick spoon. Margolis provided his own. It bent in the hand of his son. He still has it. It is not a trick spoon.
 
Steve, that's a great website. With all the lies, exagerrations, and distortions put forth by both Geller's supporters and detractors, it's nice to see that someone has taken the time to carefully sort out the facts.
 
Lucianarchy said:
He uses a trick spoon. Margolis provided his own. It bent in the hand of his son. He still has it. It is not a trick spoon.

I wasn't talking about Margolis. I was talking about Allan Slaigh. The person you mentioned.

You want the story again? Sure, no problem:

"I am a true skeptic and had also read books and viewed videos on how magicians bend keys.

Uri got in my car, pulled a spoon from the hotel from his pocket and asked me to examine it. It was solid and hard to bend by force. He held it between one finger and thumb by the bowl and g-e-n-t-l-y rubbed it with a finger of his other hand. It began to bend!

Then he placed it on the dashboard near the windshield and as I watched, the spoon bent by itself until it was at a ninety degree angle. I was later told that this is referred as "after bending" although I had not heard of it or had it described before. "

What happens here is exactly what happened when Niels Krøjgaard "bended" the spoon on Danish TV. Many, many thousands saw it, Lucianarchy.

I am waiting for your explanation.
 
I bent a spoon once trying to serve some paranormally hard ice cream.... Does that count?
 
CFLarsen said:
I am waiting for your explanation.

You'll never get it.

There's no way Lucianarchy is genuine. He's a small boy getting his jollies over pissing people off, nothing more.
 
I guess I have to say something here

Quote by Lucian.......

"Then he placed it on the dashboard near the windshield and as I watched, the spoon bent by itself until it was at a ninety degree angle. I was later told that this is referred as "after bending" although I had not heard of it or had it described beforeIt's my name sake.

Really - please !!!!

I have seen a few examples of Uri performances in the past (not live I should add) and he has never performed this trick for the cameras. Why not? Because he has never done it. His sleight of hand (you know after seeing hundreds of clever street magicians, it is an insult to them to use the term) is piss poor at best and there is always opportunity to exchange cutlery or he mysteriously loses his powers.

Isn't it curious that this major publicity hound (remember him sniffing around Blaine) could do something so profound but never for the cameras or general public. Just for his closest friends.

Christ can't you smell hogwash

Bentspoon
 
"...As regards the alleged spoon bending effect among conjurors from 1968, I, too, would like to see that. Randi has often talked of Uri's effects appearing on the back of corn flakes boxes. I very much doubt it, and I know Randi was desperately looking for some such box a few years back when Uri was suing him over that remark.
Randi's "cereal box" comments were in regard to Uri and Shipi's mentalism act, not spoonbending or metal bending. You can look it up in Randi's book, "The Magic of Uri Geller".

But I think that the effect of spoon bending was original with Uri. Interestingly, Uri recently shared with me some stuff he got about some very early metal bending reported in Japan by psychic researchers there. He just learned about this recently and was quite surprised by it, so I doubt it was an influence on him anymore than the early Japanese thoughtography experiments had any influence on Ted Serios's later PK photo productions. Nor, so far as I have been able to ascertain, are there any cereal boxes with similar effects as Randi once claimed.
Interesting...why is it that Truzzi felt Uri could be trusted on this subject? It's as if he accepted anything Uri said without question. Not exactly skeptical, was he?

Truzzi, btw, revived the term "zetetic" as opposed to "skeptic" -- "zetetic" being what the Pyrrhonists referred to themselves as.

Rest in peace, Marcello.
 

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