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Trump's Executions Drive

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SteveAitch said:
Add in the proviso that if the executed person turns out to be innocent, the person pressing the button is also executed? :cool:
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I'd be more in favour of the prosecution team and judge copping a bullet than the executioner, who's only doing their job.
 
SteveAitch said:
Add in the proviso that if the executed person turns out to be innocent, the person pressing the button is also executed? :cool:
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Well, in fifteenth century [what we now know as] Germany, the executioner himself was a convicted murderer because being an executioner was not considered respectable. They were shunned by society and lived on the outskirts. Nobody wanted the job. So they had to force people and who better than someone who already showed a mean streak and had previous experience?

These days presumably it is a medic who administers the lethal drugs. I would have thought that was against the Hippocratic Oath.
 
Vixen said:
Well, in fifteenth century [what we now know as] Germany, the executioner himself was a convicted murderer because being an executioner was not considered respectable. They were shunned by society and lived on the outskirts. Nobody wanted the job. So they had to force people and who better than someone who already showed a mean streak and had previous experience?

These days presumably it is a medic who administers the lethal drugs. I would have thought that was against the Hippocratic Oath.
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Vixen said:
Maybe it would be Trump's greatest honour to perform the deed before he goes.
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He's half German and a murderer so that would work.
 
Vixen said:
Well, in fifteenth century [what we now know as] Germany, the executioner himself was a convicted murderer because being an executioner was not considered respectable. They were shunned by society and lived on the outskirts. Nobody wanted the job. So they had to force people and who better than someone who already showed a mean streak and had previous experience?

These days presumably it is a medic who administers the lethal drugs. I would have thought that was against the Hippocratic Oath.
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That subject comes up a lot.

To the best of my knowledge, only doctors swear to the Hippocratic Oath, and no doctor actually does anything related to the execution except verify that the victim is dead, and stands by in case the execution is called off or some other event occurs where the victim requires medical assistance. The doctor takes no active part in the execution itself.

I'm not sure who puts in the IV. i.e. Is it a medical technician? Or is it just a prison staffer whose only medical training is in how to insert an IV? I know that it is not a medic of any sort who turns on the poison to kill the target of the execution.
 
Vixen said:
Well, in fifteenth century [what we now know as] Germany, the executioner himself was a convicted murderer because being an executioner was not considered respectable. They were shunned by society and lived on the outskirts. Nobody wanted the job. So they had to force people and who better than someone who already showed a mean streak and had previous experience?
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Cite?
Most were civil servants and paid, others were dragooned into it.
There is this;
In17th century Sweden there was a practice of offering the job to a person on death row in lieu of their own execution. But again, most were appointed by the monarch or career executioners.
 
I was just getting a candle out to light for Lisa Montgomery so I could blow out the flame at the time of her execution, but I see she's been given an 11.9th hour stay!

A federal judge has stayed the execution and ordered a competency hearing: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/us/lisa-montgomery-execution-stayed/index.html

The prosecution is appealing, but I don't see any way that's going to matter, because Biden will be president and the executions will cease.

I'm going to pop a champagne cork instead now. When I sober up I'll send Judge James Hanlon an email congratulating him on his excellent decision.
 
Matthew Best said:
There's a long piece on BBC News about this lady.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55587260

Her crime was obviously heinous and particularly horrible so I can see why supporters of the death penalty might be keen to see it applied to her, but also her background and childhood sounds like it was absolutely ghastly as well.
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Executing this woman will not deter others from similar crimes.
The dodgy human race may prefer to explore this obviously anomalous behaviour by talking to her and her influencers.
 
Matthew Best said:
... but also her background and childhood sounds like it was absolutely ghastly as well.
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"Ghastly" hardly begins to cover it - I genuinely don't believe there's a word or phrase in English that adequately describes her childhood.

I find quite absurd that drone operators are routinely diagnosed with PTSD - and the mental illness has been used as defence for many a soldier facing murder charges - but Lisa Montgomery was competent to be found guilty of murder and due to be executed, despite having received infinitely more damage than a drone operator (or soldier, for that matter) ever would.
 
Vixen said:
Well, in fifteenth century [what we now know as] Germany, the executioner himself was a convicted murderer because being an executioner was not considered respectable. They were shunned by society and lived on the outskirts. Nobody wanted the job. So they had to force people and who better than someone who already showed a mean streak and had previous experience?

These days presumably it is a medic who administers the lethal drugs. I would have thought that was against the Hippocratic Oath.
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That is why it isn't a medical professional doing the administering one of the several problems with lethal injection. That pharmaceutical companies refuse to sell them the drugs is also a problem.

Hence the drive to more firing squads instead of lethal injection.
 
EHocking said:
Cite?
Most were civil servants and paid, others were dragooned into it.
There is this;
In17th century Sweden there was a practice of offering the job to a person on death row in lieu of their own execution. But again, most were appointed by the monarch or career executioners.
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It also became a family business in some cases

"For over 200 years the Grossholtz or Grosholtz family worked as executioners in France and Germany. Often the children would follow in the father's footsteps. This is how the family dynasty came about. As far as I can tell the family lived in the village of Landser where the first executioner resided."

http://memorykeepernotes.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-family-business-executioner.html
 
ponderingturtle said:
It also became a family business in some cases

"For over 200 years the Grossholtz or Grosholtz family worked as executioners in France and Germany. Often the children would follow in the father's footsteps. This is how the family dynasty came about. As far as I can tell the family lived in the village of Landser where the first executioner resided."

http://memorykeepernotes.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-family-business-executioner.html
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I had to research this topic for an historical novel I was writing and much of it was quite new to me. The key book on Amazon (I've only read extracts} is this one:

The Executioner's Journal: Meister Frantz Schmidt of the Imperial City of Nuremberg (Studies in Early Modern German History) Diary – 30 Jun. 2016

And of course, there is also modern hangman Pierrepoint, which I have never read.

Looking at Montgomery purely objectively from a cold legal POV, the issue of her capability and mental illness, should have been brought up at the trial, that is the correct time. Also, since a very large percentage of society's worst criminals have had appalling childhoods (for example, the Bulgar killers, one of whom came from a home of neglect and incest) I am not sure how Montgomery having had a hard life is mitigating. I accept that persons suffering from , say paranoid schizophrenia, are not in control of their thoughts and behaviour yet, some of the worst crimes are committed by such people (for example, the killer of seven-year-old Emily Pierce [_sp?] who got a reduced charge of manslaughter, when she herself failed to take her medication and actually bought a knife in advance. It all seemed very calculated.

Having said that, I don't believe in the death penalty, except for the most egregious of crimes (for example, treason in a war). The other thing I object to is the fact the baby Montgomery tore out of an innocent young woman and stole is now sixteen years old. This indicates Montgomery has been in custody all of those years, which is more than the standard life sentence in Europe. (Anders Brevik got a maximum of twelve years, for example, although he the right to apply for parole and Norway just has to keep turning him down.)

So having already served 'life' it is just double punishment to also execute her, in addition.

Plus we know Trump is motivated by pure cruelty, which is not what justice should be about.
 
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From her attorney: “The craven bloodlust of a failed administration was on full display tonight.”

After a 6-3 SCOTUS decision not to grant a stay. So all those pieces of **** anti-abortion SCOTUS justices don't think God minds if we kill adults.

******* hypocrites.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
From her attorney: “The craven bloodlust of a failed administration was on full display tonight.”

After a 6-3 SCOTUS decision not to grant a stay. So all those pieces of **** anti-abortion SCOTUS justices don't think God minds if we kill adults. ******* hypocrites.
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Ain't that the truth. :mad:
 
This really brings shame on America.

Montgomery is the first female federal inmate to be put to death by the US government in 67 years.

According to witnesses, a woman standing next to Montgomery during the execution process, removed the inmate's face mask and asked her if she had any last words. Montgomery responded "no", and said nothing else.

She was pronounced dead at 01:31 (06:31 GMT). Montgomery's lawyer, Kelley Henry, said that everyone who had participated in the execution "should feel shame".
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55642177

It seems to be zipcode lottery depending on where you live.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited commentary which sparked a derail into life after death and NDEs. Feel free to open a thread in an appropriate subforum or add to an existing one) for further discussion of these subjects.
 
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