Trump Sues Bolton over Book Release

[Meadmaker]

Here is a news story about it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/politics/john-bolton-book-trump-administration-lawsuit/index.html

Basically, Trump says that Bolton's book hasn't been approved by the classification police. The book is reported to be a scathing indictment of the president. The lawsuit is a rather transparent ploy to delay release of the book until after the election.

I didn't think he would do it. It's just so transparent what he's up to, and it's such an extreme violation of freedom of the press. By suing, I think all he will accomplish is drawing a bit more attention to it. All the damage that could be done by it will be done anyway, and the juicy parts will all leak despite Trump's efforts.

Here is where I wish ISF hadn't turned into such an extreme echo chamber. I really would wonder what people who are favorably disposed toward Trump have to say about this. Anyway, it could be fun, so I thought it deserved its own thread to follow new details as they develop.

 

[a_unique_person]

I knew he would do it. He's already gone all in suing CNN over a poll he didn't like. Is the way he's lived his whole life.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

It’s humorously ironic that someone so fond of trying to exert legal force over others is himself a lifelong criminal.

 

[acbytesla]

Here is a news story about it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/politics/john-bolton-book-trump-administration-lawsuit/index.html

Basically, Trump says that Bolton's book hasn't been approved by the classification police. The book is reported to be a scathing indictment of the president. The lawsuit is a rather transparent ploy to delay release of the book until after the election.

I didn't think he would do it. It's just so transparent what he's up to, and it's such an extreme violation of freedom of the press. By suing, I think all he will accomplish is drawing a bit more attention to it. All the damage that could be done by it will be done anyway, and the juicy parts will all leak despite Trump's efforts.

Here is where I wish ISF hadn't turned into such an extreme echo chamber. I really would wonder what people who are favorably disposed toward Trump have to say about this. Anyway, it could be fun, so I thought it deserved its own thread to follow new details as they develop.

Yep, every single bit of this book will be released to the public. They have already shipped the book to distribution centers. All it takes is somebody sliding a book to a reporter. A warehouse guy being handed $500 for a copy.

 

[newyorkguy]

...I really would wonder what people who are favorably disposed toward Trump have to say about this...

There are no trump supporters in this forum -- or pretty much any forum -- who are going to make a thoughtful, honest reply. After four years of this nonsense I think that's pretty clear. I think most ISF members already know pretty much how the trump supporters are going to reply.

I'm more interested in this book, "Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man," by one of trump's nieces, Mary L. Trump. Mary Trump holds a PhD from Adelphi University and taught graduate courses in trauma, psychopathology, and developmental psychology.

New details have emerged about a book by Donald Trump’s niece, which its publisher says will “explain how her uncle became the man who now threatens the world’s health, economic security, and social fabric”. According to Simon & Schuster, Mary L Trump will describe “a nightmare of traumas, destructive relationships, and a tragic combination of neglect and abuse” that explain the inner workings of “one of the world’s most powerful and dysfunctional families”.

In turn, it was reported on Tuesday night that Trump is considering an attempt to stop the book being published, akin to his decision earlier in the day to go to court over former national security adviser John Bolton’s imminent tell-all. Link to Guardian news story

 

[pgwenthold]

Here is the part that I guess I don't understand: he is suing on the grounds that it "hasn't been approved by the classification police"

Why would he sue? Public dissemination of classified material is a criminal offense, not civil. Shoot, they sent the friggin FBI after Hilary Clinton searching for any possible security breach. So if Bolton shared classified material with a publisher who does not have security clearance, 1) arrest him and 2) have a judge order an injunction on the release of the book. A civil lawsuit makes no sense at all.

ETA: If the problem is that it is a violation of an NDA, then sure, you can sue Bolton if the book comes out. But that can't be used for an injunction on releasing the book - the President has the right to enforce the penalties for breaking the NDA, but he can't prevent Bolton from breaking it.

 

[acbytesla]

Here is the part that I guess I don't understand: he is suing on the grounds that it "hasn't been approved by the classification police"

Why would he sue? Public dissemination of classified material is a criminal offense, not civil. Shoot, they sent the friggin FBI after Hilary Clinton searching for any possible security breach. So if Bolton shared classified material with a publisher who does not have security clearance, 1) arrest him and 2) have a judge order an injunction on the release of the book. A civil lawsuit makes no sense at all.

ETA: If the problem is that it is a violation of an NDA, then sure, you can sue Bolton if the book comes out. But that can't be used for an injunction on releasing the book - the President has the right to enforce the penalties for breaking the NDA, but he can't prevent Bolton from breaking it.

An NDA to Trump in his capacity as POTUS is not worth the paper it is printed on. The only question is can Bolton be indicted over the release of classified info. Trump is saying everything he said to Bolton is classified.

But this is like closing the barn door after the horse got out.

 

[Loss Leader]

I think that the NDAs are unconstitutional. I think the entire vetting process is an unconstitutional pre-publication restraint. The very backbone of our democracy is free discourse about how our government is behaving. Any prior restraint interferes with the strong interest of the people to criticize our leaders. If the Revolutionary War was about anything, it was about replacing unelected kings with private individuals open to tremendous armchair-quarterbacking. The potential loss of the public's trust in its administration is the government's problem. If it wants to avoid expert critique, it should just do a better job for its boss, the American people.

However, I don't think the courts will make Bolton's case a test of the First Amendment. I think they'll say that Bolton substantially complied with the vetting process. He was approved. The statutes and orders creating that vetting system do not allow the government to come back and force a person through such process a second time.

In sum: the courts will allow the publication is a weaselly manner, rather than take up the entire question of the First Amendment.They may do it without even once citing the Pentagon Papers.

 

[acbytesla]

I think that the NDAs are unconstitutional. I think the entire vetting process is an unconstitutional pre-publication restraint. The very backbone of our democracy is free discourse about how our government is behaving. Any prior restraint interferes with the strong interest of the people to criticize our leaders. If the Revolutionary War was about anything, it was about replacing unelected kings with private individuals open to tremendous armchair-quarterbacking. The potential loss of the public's trust in its administration is the government's problem. If it wants to avoid expert critique, it should just do a better job for its boss, the American people.

However, I don't think the courts will make Bolton's case a test of the First Amendment. I think they'll say that Bolton substantially complied with the vetting process. He was approved. The statutes and orders creating that vetting system do not allow the government to come back and force a person through such process a second time.

In sum: the courts will allow the publication is a weaselly manner, rather than take up the entire question of the First Amendment.They may do it without even once citing the Pentagon Papers.

But I am not sure they are doing anything more in this suit but trying to delay its release until after the election.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Here is the part that I guess I don't understand: he is suing on the grounds that it "hasn't been approved by the classification police"

Why would he sue?

To tie it up in court until after the election. Then it won't matter either way.

Grah! Ninja'd!

 

[The Great Zaganza]

What is abundantly clear is that Bolton has been trying to get his book cleared for a long time now, and Trump has been engaged in delaying instead of classifying.

Bolton knows how the process works, Trump knows how to make the process work for his agenda.

 

[pgwenthold]

An NDA to Trump in his capacity as POTUS is not worth the paper it is printed on. The only question is can Bolton be indicted over the release of classified info. Trump is saying everything he said to Bolton is classified.
.

If the information is classified, then Bolton has already broken the law by sharing it with a publisher.

Why haven't they arrested him?

(that's rhetorical, of course, because it's based on a false premise)

 

[Meadmaker]

Here is the part that I guess I don't understand: he is suing on the grounds that it "hasn't been approved by the classification police"

Why would he sue? Public dissemination of classified material is a criminal offense, not civil. Shoot, they sent the friggin FBI after Hilary Clinton searching for any possible security breach. So if Bolton shared classified material with a publisher who does not have security clearance, 1) arrest him and 2) have a judge order an injunction on the release of the book. A civil lawsuit makes no sense at all.

ETA: If the problem is that it is a violation of an NDA, then sure, you can sue Bolton if the book comes out. But that can't be used for an injunction on releasing the book - the President has the right to enforce the penalties for breaking the NDA, but he can't prevent Bolton from breaking it.

That thought occurred to me as well. (i.e. why a civil suit?)

I think the answer is just plain harassment. It might be that there is some sort of enforceable provision that caries civil, but not criminal, penalties. It might be that the stories in the media are sparse on detail and there's some complicated legalisms going on.

Or, Trump could just be a doofus trying to exert authority he doesn't have, and he has already fired all the good lawyers who might be willing to say, "Sorry Mr. President. There's nothing you can do."

 

[acbytesla]

That thought occurred to me as well. (i.e. why a civil suit?)

I think the answer is just plain harassment. It might be that there is some sort of enforceable provision that caries civil, but not criminal, penalties. It might be that the stories in the media are sparse on detail and there's some complicated legalisms going on.

Or, Trump could just be a doofus trying to exert authority he doesn't have, and he has already fired all the good lawyers who might be willing to say, "Sorry Mr. President. There's nothing you can do."

I don't think it is a civil suit considering the DOJ filed it. They are seeking an injunction. The problem of course is a conflict between actual classified info and prior restraint.

 

[Beeyon]

Here is where I wish ISF hadn't turned into such an extreme echo chamber. I really would wonder what people who are favorably disposed toward Trump have to say about this.

Are you familiar with the subreddit r/AskTrumpSupporters? It is a heavily moderated discussion group where non-supporters can ask these sorts of questions of Trump supporters.

You might find some value in it, but I personally find it very boring to read. Not because of the perspectives of the Trump supporters per se, but because of the quality of their comments.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Colbert showed his copy of the book he got in advance for his interview with Bolton next week.
It might be a tad late for the WH to try and block it.

 

[acbytesla]

Colbert showed his copy of the book he got in advance for his interview with Bolton next week.
It might be a tad late for the WH to try and block it.

ARCs are almost always distributed with an embargo until publication release date. So book critics and reporters for the book tour all probably already have it if Colbert has it.

Now it could be that Colbert only has a blank book and dust jacket but I doubt it since the book has shipped to distributors.

 

[Craig4]

I've already pre-ordered it on Audible. Audible, an Amazon company seems perfectly willing to sell it to me.

I did some soul searching as I was conflicted about giving that son of a bitch my money. In the end though I hate the other son of a bitch more. Bolton is trying to destroy Trump and that's always a laudable goal even if he's a DB in all other respects.

 

[Segnosaur]

I've already pre-ordered it on Audible. Audible, an Amazon company seems perfectly willing to sell it to me.

I did some soul searching as I was conflicted about giving that son of a bitch my money. In the end though I hate the other son of a bitch more. Bolton is trying to destroy Trump and that's always a laudable goal even if he's a DB in all other respects.

To be honest I don't think Bolton really cares if trump is destroyed or not. I think he just wants to make money.

If he really wanted to "destroy" trump he would have spoken sooner (like during impeachment). He had the opportunity (like during the house inquiries) but chose not to.


Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

 

[Meadmaker]

Are you familiar with the subreddit r/AskTrumpSupporters? It is a heavily moderated discussion group where non-supporters can ask these sorts of questions of Trump supporters.

You might find some value in it, but I personally find it very boring to read. Not because of the perspectives of the Trump supporters per se, but because of the quality of their comments.

Thanks. I should check it out,