Almost everyone in the USA Politics section. It's a giant conspiritard circle jerk all based on no evidence other than Trump trying his hardest to look guilty as hell. There's like 50000 posts on the topic, which inspired my Loose Change Forum comparison.
There's a lot of dislike for Trump, certainly, and he's very much an attention grabber at the moment. Also, I may simply not have noticed, but it didn't actually look like that to me, despite participating in, for example, the All things Trump + Russia thread. There's some people who are fairly certain, yes, but more that are just suspicious. Either way, it's Trump's campaign that was actually under investigation from the start and not specifically him, and there's a lot that's been notably suspicious there, so that's hardly a surprise. Given Trump's history and character, it gets notably more suspicious, too, frankly.
It's the MO of conspiracy theorists. They will never be satisfied with the conclusions of any investigation that disagrees with their predrawn conclusions. I'll do ban bets with anyone here who thinks the Dems will be satisfied if the investigation closes with no Trump collusion. If there's one thing I know, its that CTers are persistent. If the hates remains, so will the conspiracy claims.
Hmm. "The Dems," from what I've actually seen, for the most part, are not convinced that Trump necessarily colluded with the Russians, but would be completely unsurprised if he did and would be fine with accepting the results of a serious investigation, regardless of what it ended up concluding. That there are conspiracy theorists mixed into the party, though, is something that pretty obvious. For many of those people, though, if Trump were to get kicked out for financial crimes, they would largely cease caring about whether he colluded with the Russians or not.
I agree it's responsible to investigate. The magnitude of the accusations warrant a lengthy and dispassionate look into any improper contact.
Indeed.
The problem is that the Dems are calling for impeachment before the investigation has even concluded,
Most of them aren't, actually. The leaders, especially, have been pointedly avoiding calling for such. The major "liberal media" outlets haven't been calling for such, either, for that matter, in notable contrast to what conservative media like Fox News has done towards Democrats. Most would very much like him impeached, though, for reasons that are largely separate from any campaign collusion with Russia, and tend to be honest about that. Trump hasn't exactly been good for the country in just about any way in most Democrats' eyes, after all.
that tells me they have no interest in the actual truth of the matter.
For some, true. For most, that's not true.
It's driven by an irrational hatred of the man, rather than based on evidence.
Err... Given Trump, it's actually surprisingly hard to justify the "irrational" claim, given his actual words and actions. Remember, he's been a scumbag celebrity and conman all along and was employing quite a bit of demagoguery on the campaign trail and has kept employing it in the White House... and that's just a few of the generalities. I'd accept that it's driven by hatred of the man, though, more generally, and thus could frequently be diverted to safer targets.
That much is abundantly clear. If the Comey hearing was any indicator of how the Mueller investigation will play out, and I believe it will be, I think we need to investigate who leaked what and hold them accountable for wasting everytimes time and money on this clownshow.
That depends on what you're actually talking about, first of all? Flynn, alone, would likely be enough to justify a serious investigation into Trump's campaign, before getting to the rest of the people of direct interest there. When it comes to Comey's hearing, which was supposedly supposed to provide (or confirm) information to work with regarding potential Obstruction of Justice, rather than just about anything to do with Russia specifically, I'm curious about how you actually thought that it played out?
Is it really worth the risk? The Dems are sticking their necks way out there
Are they actually sticking their necks out there? Quite seriously, I don't think that they are. The "liberal media" is pretty much out for ratings, regardless, and has certainly kept things in the public eye, but I've seen very little activity from the Democrat Congressmen and leaders on the matter beyond demanding for a serious investigation (that Trump and the Republicans can't just shut down or derail at will, preferably) when it's been quite clear that Trump and the Republican leaders want to just make the issues at hand there disappear.
and this thing could backfire big time if Mueller doesn't find anything. Even the obstructions claims are dubious. What was he obstructing? I'm no lawyer, but doesn't Flynn need be charged with a crime for obstruction to be in play? I admit I could be way off on this one.
Legal scholars seem to be divided, to some extent, based on what they're focusing on as the most relevant points in play. In response to your suggestion about charged with a crime, though, I'd offer up that whether Flynn's formally been charged or not is of very questionable relevance when there was quite notable cause for further investigation and given the potentially chargable issues already found, like perjury and false information provided about conflicts of interest, and a lot more left to investigate beyond that.
Man I'm just sick of the bullcrap coming from both parties. I really am. Its like they are being run by semi-retarded toddlers. I can honestly look at the Reps and say they dont represent my views, but now I can say the same of the Dems. They have like 19 parties in European countries. I want that here. That's my pipedream.
Support electoral reform, then, in short. Our current system, in general, favors a two party system fairly strongly, for better or worse.
They have no choice but to see it through, but I'm telling you as a frustrated moderate, if they swing and miss - I'll no longer be a moderate. I admittedly already have one foot inside the door to the dark side.
Sadly, we don't really have a moderates third party at present, with the note that the Democrats are currently the closest party to moderate, at this point.
