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Trump - No transgender individuals in the military

I'll take that as a yes :)

And it's relevant enough, if you choose to participate in a president-producing ritual, and the ritual succeeds in producing a president, then you don't get to complain afterwards about it "not being your president." You wanted a master and you got one.

I don't think you are paying attention to what I am saying. When I was in the Navy, the president was my president. As merely a citizen, it is conceptually impossible for a president to be "my" president. There is no relationship between the two of us that is greater than my relationship to people I exchange good and services for money. This is not an issue of regard.

And you are wrong. I both voted and didn't vote.
 
I've had a few more thoughts on the budget issue.

Not only is 2.4 million basically a rounding error compared with the budget we're talking about, but we would almost certainly not save 2.4 million by expelling trans people from service.

Unless I'm misinformed, the military is not overstaffed, so discharged soldiers would either need to be replaced, or the effectiveness would suffer.

It's hard to exactly measure the cost of replacement. I believe it currently costs something like $6.5k per recruit. That comes from about a billion a year in advertising, staffing recruitment offices, enlistment bonuses etc.

We don't know how many trans people are currently serving, but even conservative estimates make something like at least 3,000 pretty likely.

So just in recruitment costs, for just the one time replacement we're looking at $19.5 million.

Now we'd also be throwing out all the training that these people received and having to spend on training all new people. Some of these trans people seem to be quite advanced in their training, but to be generous and simple, let's just look at basic training. There are a variety of numbers, but it looks like at least 50k to bring one soldier to readiness.

So replacing 3k trained soldiers would cost about $150 million in replacement training.

There are a million other smaller costs, like simply filing paperwork (not a small thing in a bureaucracy the size of the US military) updating recruitment paperwork and every system that has to list requirements. Fighting the inevitable law suits. Shipping people home from overseas posts and shipping in their replacements. And on and on. It's very likely that the minutiae would end up costing more than the direct $169.5 million of the one time replacement.

But even leaving that out, it would take 70 years of saving 2.4 million a year for this to break even. Now charitably again, I can imagine that all things being equal, more trans people might serve in the future, and the costs of medical procedures might rise, so let's say 50 years.

(Realistically, all the real costs likely mean it would be more like a century before this policy broke even)

This is of course leaving out continuing costs. If we've got a ban, then every so often they're going to have to discover trans people and kick them out. If we're leaving out a segment of the population, however small, we're going to have to spend more yearly on recruitment. You're probably going to turn off some potential recruits who view this action as bigoted.

If this were actually a budget saving measure, it would have originated with a study of all the economic factors above and more, instead of a tweet.

This is why military leaders have been in support of trans members and allowing them services in the first place. Just as why they cover ED meds, too. It's more cost efficient to do so.
 
Bumping for new info; reportedly, Trump has sent Mattis a memorandum to provide guidelines for the transgender ban.

Such guidelines include:
-Consider "deployability" (Really? So does that mean we're going to ban pregnant women and soldiers who can't deploy for whatever reason next?)
-Kick all currently serving transgender members out (Way to go; let's take fully functional members of the US military and just kick them out simply because they were born another gender from the one they are currently)
-Don't let new ones in (Stupidest. Ban. Ever.)
-Cease paying for any hormone treatments or surgeries (yeah, because we so desperately need that 5 million or so for more screws for the F-35)

This is, if you'll pardon my language, the absolute ******** stupidest thing I have ever heard of happening to the military.

ETA: Link
 
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From Trump's speech in Arizona:

It's time for us to follow the example of our brave American soldiers. And I was with a lot of them last night, Fort Myers.

No matter where they come from, no matter what faith they practice, they form a single unbreakable team.

They're all united by their devotion to our country and to their mission. It's time for all of us to remember that we are all on the same team.

Obviously he neglected to read the part of his speech that said 'unless they are transgender, screw them. Hate them. Get them out. They are not part of our brave team, and have no devotion to our country and their mission'

Seriously, what speechwriter could produce that with a straight face?
 
From Trump's speech in Arizona:


Obviously he neglected to read the part of his speech that said 'unless they are transgender, screw them. Hate them. Get them out. They are not part of our brave team, and have no devotion to our country and their mission'

Seriously, what speechwriter could produce that with a straight face?
He said one day he thinks he's doing the military a big favor by removing this source of confusion. If he's so proud of this accomplishment, why isn't he touting it in his rally speech?
 
Bumping for new info; reportedly, Trump has sent Mattis a memorandum to provide guidelines for the transgender ban.

Such guidelines include:
-Consider "deployability" (Really? So does that mean we're going to ban pregnant women and soldiers who can't deploy for whatever reason next?)
-Kick all currently serving transgender members out (Way to go; let's take fully functional members of the US military and just kick them out simply because they were born another gender from the one they are currently)
-Don't let new ones in (Stupidest. Ban. Ever.)
-Cease paying for any hormone treatments or surgeries (yeah, because we so desperately need that 5 million or so for more screws for the F-35)

This is, if you'll pardon my language, the absolute ******** stupidest thing I have ever heard of happening to the military.

[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

Been in and around the DoD since basic training in 1992; this is the most FUBAR policy I've seen come from the top.
 
[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

Been in and around the DoD since basic training in 1992; this is the most FUBAR policy I've seen come from the top.

See, he has achieved something.

Noteworthy, but not admirable.
 
Mattis freezes the transgender ban on current members of the armed forces, for now.

http://www.newstimes.com/entertainm...-Freezes-Trump-s-Transgender-Ban-12159810.php

From General Mattis' statement:

As directed, we will develop a study and implementation plan, which will contain the steps that will promote military readiness, lethality, and unit cohesion, with due regard for budgetary constraints and consistent with applicable law.

I thought that President Trump had already consulted with generals before announcing the ban on transgender individuals in the military and that they had already established that they were unaffordable and damaged military discipline and effectiveness. :confused:

Don't tell me that President Trump, in a break from his usual rigid adherence to the truth, was lying when he said that :jaw-dropp ;)
 
Mattis freezes the transgender ban on current members of the armed forces, for now.

http://www.newstimes.com/entertainm...-Freezes-Trump-s-Transgender-Ban-12159810.php

This is being framed as Mattis in opposition to Trump, and while I do feel they disagree, I'm not sure that's accurate.

While Trump made a public facing statement about trans people serving that seemed to include ousting current service member, the actual order was to reverse the Obama era policy allowing trans new recruits. Trump did not yet make an order to

Mattis isn't reversing that. A ban on trans new recruits is still in effect. And the study Mattis cites had already been underway. So I don't see Mattis actually changing anything.
 
Hmm. I just ran into something somewhat relevant for perspective here, though I admit uncertainty about whether the source material was posted here already.

The study conducted by the Department of Defense prior to the June 2016 lifting of the ban estimated the cost of health care coverage to be between $2.4 million and $8.4 million per year, less than 1/10 of 1 percent of the military’s annual budget. This amount is also just 1/10th of the amount the military spends on medication to treat erectile dysfunction.

In something from HRC, based in part on a WaPo article.
 
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