• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Trump announces intent to end Birthright Citizenship

Shalamar said:
This is what gets me. Conservatives were screaming that President Obama should be impeached because they imagined that he was, or was going to ignore the constitution.

President Trump actually comes out to say that he wants to disregard the constitution, and conservatives either ignore, or applaud it!
Click to expand...

My tribe, right or wrong.
 
As a reference, here's what somebody has to do to obtain a Certificate of (U.S.) Citizenship, in cases where, say, somebody was born abroad to an American parent.

You will need the following evidence and required documents to apply for Certificate of Citizenship:

Two identical passport-style photographs
Your birth certificate or birth record
Birth certificate or birth record of your US citizen parent
Marriage certificate(s) of your US citizen parent
Documents showing marriage termination (if applicable), such as certified divorce decree, death certificate, or annulment document
Proof of US citizenship such as birth certificate, Form N-550, Form N-560, Form FS-240, or valid US passport
Proof of required residence or physical presence in the US

Certain applicants may be required to provide the following:
Proof of status as US national (for applicants claiming US citizenship through a US national)
Proof of legitimation (for applicants born out of wedlock)
Proof of legal custody (for applicants whose US citizen parents divorced/separated and for adopted/legitimated applicants)
Copy of permanent resident card or other evidence of permanent resident status (for applicants claiming US citizenship after birth through a US citizen parent)
Copy of full, final adoption decree (for applicants who are adopted)
Re-adoption in the US
Evidence of all legal name changes
Click to expand...
https://www.path2usa.com/certificate-of-citizenship
https://www.uscis.gov/n-600

And the fee is $1170.

Imagine doing this for every baby born in the U.S.
 
Last edited:
We've been saying that this is just red meat for the deplorables, but it's also of a piece with things like the family separation policy and the Muslim ban and generally calling attention to anti-immigrant sentiment: Regardless of how things work out for him on those, Trump wants to reduce the influx of his perceived undesirables (non-Europeans) by sending a message to potential immigrants that they are no longer welcome here, legally or otherwise.
 
Shalamar said:
This is what gets me. Conservatives were screaming that President Obama should be impeached because they imagined that he was, or was going to ignore the constitution.

President Trump actually comes out to say that he wants to disregard the constitution, and conservatives either ignore, or applaud it!
Click to expand...

He said no such thing. He is stating he is enforcing it as written.
 
BobTheCoward said:
He said no such thing. He is stating he is enforcing it as written.
Click to expand...

He doesn't get to interpret the Constitution. The 14th Amendment itself and subsequent court decisions have determined that people born here are citizens. Period.
 
JoeMorgue said:
No country in Europe, Asia, Oceania, or Africa (outside of, I think, two exceptions in Africa) practice unrestricted Jus Soli and very few have it all in any concept.

Are they all anti-immigration?
Click to expand...

Whether birthright (or Jus Soli if you prefer) citizenship is a good idea is certainly debatable. However, the reality is that it is guaranteed by the 14th amendment (with one narrow exception) and cannot be changed by an executive order.

This is yet another piece of evidence that Trump, and Republicans in general, really only support the parts of the Constitution that they like.
 
Mumbles said:
This should surprise nobody at all - Dolt 45 has a miserable record in courts so far precisely because he just does EOs without so much as consulting a lawyer or letting relevant departments provide input..
Click to expand...


I read something that compared President Obama's Executive Orders to Trump's.
President Obama would write a paragraph stating "The government should (new policy). (Appropriate agency) will take the steps necessary to implement this policy."
Trump writes a general statement, followed by a dozen bullet points that affect at least three or four different agencies.
 
Bob001 said:
He doesn't get to interpret the Constitution. The 14th Amendment itself and subsequent court decisions have determined that people born here are citizens. Period.
Click to expand...

He absolutely does. He has an oath. If he concludes a ruling violates the constitution, he has the constitutional obligation to ignore it. Unless you think the oath means enforce whatever the court says no matter how wrong it is.
 
BobTheCoward said:
He absolutely does. He has an oath. If he concludes a ruling violates the constitution, he has the constitutional obligation to ignore it. Unless you think the oath means enforce whatever the court says no matter how wrong it is.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what his oath means. The courts and ultimately the Supreme Court determine the meaning of the Constitution, not the President.

You're not in the U.S., are you?
 
Bob001 said:
That is exactly what his oath means. The courts and ultimately the Supreme Court determine the meaning of the Constitution, not the President.

You're not in the U.S., are you?
Click to expand...

The constitution doesn't specify judicial supremacy. The deference exercised by the other branches is not a requirement.
 
BobTheCoward said:
He absolutely does. He has an oath. If he concludes a ruling violates the constitution, he has the constitutional obligation to ignore it. Unless you think the oath means enforce whatever the court says no matter how wrong it is.
Click to expand...

That in itself would overturn the doctrine of judicial review which has been the law of the land since 1803 and Marbury v Madison.
 
The president does not have the authority to amend the constitution on his own. In fact, he doesn’t even get a say in such matters.
 
acbytesla said:
That in itself would overturn the doctrine of judicial review which has been the law of the land since 1803 and Marbury v Madison.
Click to expand...

Not at all. Judicial review and judicial supremacy are not hand in hand. Here is an example

President thinks a law allowing the charging of protestors is legal.

Supreme court strikes down the law.

The president orders the FBI to continue arresting and charging. The supreme court orders federal judges to dismiss the cases. People get arrested, the judge vacates the charges. Repeat for every person arrested.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy

The court exercised judicial review and it is the guidance for everyone in the judicial branch.
 
Last edited:
zorro99 said:
The president does not have the authority to amend the constitution on his own. In fact, he doesn’t even get a say in such matters.
Click to expand...

Not exactly, there is the Bully Pulpit, and Trump can really put the Bully in Bully Pulpit.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Not at all. Judicial review and judicial supremacy are not hand in hand. Here is an example

President thinks a law allowing the charging of protestors is legal.

Supreme court strikes down the law.

The president orders the FBI to continue arresting and charging. The supreme court orders federal judges to dismiss the cases. People get arrested, the judge vacates the charges. Repeat for every person arrested.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy

The court exercised judicial review and it is the guidance for everyone in the judicial branch.
Click to expand...

You don't know what you're talking about bob.
 
Shalamar said:
This is what gets me. Conservatives were screaming that President Obama should be impeached because they imagined that he was, or was going to ignore the constitution.

President Trump actually comes out to say that he wants to disregard the constitution, and conservatives either ignore, or applaud it!
Click to expand...

Because it was never about "ignoring the constitution."

Just as it was never about her emails (Obama pointed this out - if they were so damned concerned about security, they would be calling to confiscate Trump's cell phone)
 
zorro99 said:
The president does not have the authority to amend the constitution on his own. In fact, he doesn’t even get a say in such matters.
Click to expand...
That is only true if one of the other two branches of government utilizes their checks on the executive branch. If no one stops him, is he really so limited?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom