Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Emily's Cat]

Ok I take it back sorry. I was the first one to mention trust in a literal sense by using the word distrust, but I had also brought the issue of trust into the equation by bringing up misandry in the first place, as that's about trust too.

edit: I still think my misandry claim is correct though.

It's about as "correct" as me accusing you of doing a misogyny for valuing the feelings of males who profess to have a female gender over the safety and dignity of females who are actually somatically female. In other words, it's not.

 

[Thermal]

1) What's to report when a male being naked and having their dick exposed in a female shower is not illegal? What's to report when a male looking at a female while the female is nude in the female changing room is not illegal? That's a big part of the issue: the behavior that is the actual problem has been legalized, leaving females with no means to combat it.

Because it is. Perving is not given the free pass so often claimed here. Merager was arrested and tried for perving, as were others.

2) Why do you expect females to report it when doing so results in the female being harassed and vilified? Why would females subject ourselves to further pain and offense by reporting it when the law will take the side of the male? See Merager, Black, Francis, and all the female students of that Ohio school who a judge told had no right to visual bodily privacy from males while in the female locker room and showers.

Tish Hyman is being celebrated and her fame and popularity gone way up, as well as her spotify listenings. Some people blanket demonize the gender critical no matter what, but it isn't universal. People are reasonable, and not as one-dimensional as so often portrayed here.

3) Given how small a portion of the population transgender identified people are supposed to be, don't you think that instances showing up every few weeks or months might be a big ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ deal?

No way. We find cannibals more often. Doing loose math with the trans poulation and cis sex offender populations, I came up with something like 500 reported covictions per day, if trans people were on an even keel with cis people for being convicted for sex crimes. We're falling orders of magnitude short on that.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I dunno. Took me a while to even realize what I was supposed to be seeing. Far longer than I would have looked at feet in an occupied stall.

It took me less than two seconds, and my reaction was to be appalled. It was blatantly and shockingly obvious that a male was choking their chicken in there.

 

[smartcooky]

1) What's to report when a male being naked and having their dick exposed in a female shower is not illegal? What's to report when a male looking at a female while the female is nude in the female changing room is not illegal? That's a big part of the issue: the behavior that is the actual problem has been legalized, leaving females with no means to combat it.

Not to mention of course, that mainstream media will not even report it, even if it was illegal, because they are captured by gender ideology.

Even in the unlikely event that such a thing were to be reported by MSM, they would report it as a conflict between two women, or that a "woman" exposed "herself" to other women. The transgender identified male's ladydick will not even be mentioned.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Sugar coating doesn't change meaning for many of us. If someone says "Those lovely black people should be hung", I don't think they really think those black people are lovely.

Why do you think it's reasonable for you to resort to using slurs in reference to a group of people you are defending?

JFC, you gave me grief for using the unambiguous term "trans-identified male" as being unacceptably derogatory, but you seem to have no qualms about using significantly worse language.

 

[Thermal]

There is no way in general to distinguish between an "authentic" trans person and an imposter. So why would you expect to be able to identify them?

The police don't have much problem refusing to accept certain trans identities and declaring them opportunistic.

And when their predatory behavior (like masturbating in the locker room) isn't even illegal, why would you expect that to show up in statistics?

Not even statistics. Just reporting on twitter, like our recent Planet Fitness tweet. I'm expecting hundreds of these pouring in, not one every six months. And as you say, that creep wasn't even doing anything in front of anybody. He was entirely secluded in an empty room for almost the whole ordeal.

 

[Thermal]

It took me less than two seconds, and my reaction was to be appalled. It was blatantly and shockingly obvious that a male was choking their chicken in there.

Do you think it might have been because your attention had been called to it and you were being told to watch?

How many times a day to you inspect the feet and shadow movement of others in a public restroom? I've never looked for half a second.

 

[Emily's Cat]

If you are treating males as a category, in the same way that you would treat a jaguar or leopard then that seems like misandry to me.

This is silly. I don't treat males in the same way I treat big cats. It's inane to even suggest such a thing.

As an abstract category, having no information whatsoever, I treat the generic concept of "males" as a category that represents a non-negligible risk to the abstract category of "females", and furthermore, they're a category for whom the cost of experienced risk is EXTREMELY high to females. I don't treat every single male that way, nor do I treat the entire category that way in every single situation.

How do you treat dogs? Do you acknowledge that dogs as a category have the potential to cause harm to children? I would hope so, given that it's a true statement. That said, I would also hope that you evaluate the potential risk depending on the size of the dog, whether or not you know the dog, and the behavioral temperament of the breed, whether the dog is enclosed or leashed, as well as how many other people and dogs are in the near vicinity. Because all of those are part of risk evaluation.

 

[Thermal]

Why do you think it's reasonable for you to resort to using slurs in reference to a group of people you are defending?

Because sin is in the intent. Do i seriously have to explain the difference between using 'mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊' to a friend versus a stranger?

JFC, you gave me grief for using the unambiguous term "trans-identified male" as being unacceptably derogatory, but you seem to have no qualms about using significantly worse language.

Because that term is universally a derogatory one. The only people on this particular planet who deny that are shall we say, 'not friends' of transpeople.

Try asking a transperson how they like that oh-so-objective label. Please, do so. Report back when the hospital releases you.

 

[Ziggurat]

The police don't have much problem refusing to accept certain trans identities and declaring them opportunistic.

The police in Fairfax County seemed to have a problem refusing Richard Cox's trans identity, so I don't think you're correct about that. The cases where we know they have done so are rather extreme, and of little to no usefulness in most situations.

Not even statistics. Just reporting on twitter, like our recent Planet Fitness tweet.

That was buried in obscurity until Tish brought it to light. What makes you think there aren't other such tweets still buried in obscurity? What makes you think that there aren't even more cases that never get put on twitter at all? Why do you think what you see actually represents what's happening?

I'm expecting hundreds of these pouring in, not one every six months.

Why do you think your expectations are correctly calibrated? This seems like a pretty un-safe assumption to me.

And as you say, that creep wasn't even doing anything in front of anybody. He was entirely secluded in an empty room for almost the whole ordeal.

That's not really much of an excuse for his behavior.

 

[ahhell]

I'm reminded of something I read years ago. A bunch of men were asked what they thought would be the right thing to do if they noticed they were following a lone woman down a deserted street at night. The number who said they would speed up in order to safeguard her was astonishingly high. Even when they were reminded that the woman could have no idea who they were and what their intentions were, many still didn't get it. They knew they were no danger to her, and seemed incapable of imagining how she might feel.

I'm putting the right answer in a spoiler box, so the men here can think about it before clicking.

Cross the road and walk on the other side.

Funny, years ago I ran across that exact situation, and I followed your recommendations. She then asked me for directions.

I'm curious what the percentage is that said speed up was, above zero is rather high but there's 10% of people will always chose the obviously bad choice no matter what the question is.

 

[theprestige]

If you are treating males as a category, in the same way that you would treat a jaguar or leopard then that seems like misandry to me.

It's the exact same categorization used to exclude males from women's sports, and women's prisons. Is that misandrist? If you insist, but the result of that is not shaming us in to abandoning the category. The result of insisting on calling it misandry is that nobody will take accusations of "misandry" seriously anymore.

Is women's sports misandrist? Yes? Oh no. Anyway.

Are women's prisons misandrist? Yes? Oh no. Anyway.

Are women's shelters misandrist? Yes? Oh no. Anyway.

The fact is that we're talking about real people trying to get real things done in the real world. Manage equitable and satisfying sports leagues. Manage safe and secure prisons. Etc. At some point, it's necessary to move on from inconclusive hand-wringing about terminology and perception, and actually put workable policies into place.

Your complaint basically boils down to "the reasoning that leads you to this policy seems misandrist to me." To which I say, Oh no.

Anyway, if you don't have an alternative policy that works better than the current one, and alternative reasoning that doesn't seem offensive to anyone, then why should your concern about misandry be considered?

 

[theprestige]

The police in Fairfax County seemed to have a problem refusing Richard Cox's trans identity, so I don't think you're correct about that. The cases where we know they have done so are rather extreme, and of little to no usefulness in most situations.

That was buried in obscurity until Tish brought it to light. What makes you think there aren't other such tweets still buried in obscurity? What makes you think that there aren't even more cases that never get put on twitter at all? Why do you think what you see actually represents what's happening?

Why do you think your expectations are correctly calibrated? This seems like a pretty un-safe assumption to me.

That's not really much of an excuse for his behavior.

A friend of mine would regularly use the work restroom for this purpose. But he was always very diligent about pausing whenever someone else came in.* Because there is no good answer to "what in the everloving ◊◊◊◊ made you think it was okay to jack it in the employee restroom?" Or the gym restroom, for that matter.

---

*Sounded like the world's most unsatisfying wank to me, but any port in a storm I guess.

 

[Thermal]

The police in Fairfax County seemed to have a problem refusing Richard Cox's trans identity, so I don't think you're correct about that.

The Fairfax prosecutor was unusually lenient, and got blasted pretty good for that. Still, Cox's actions certainly got the attention of law enforcement on his second round, who physically dragged his ass out.

That was buried in obscurity until Tish brought it to light. What makes you think there aren't other such tweets still buried in obscurity?

I'm sure there are. With some of these tweety people dredging back decades to retweet the stories, it still seems like they ain't very successful in finding many, though. Painfully few.

What makes you think that there aren't even more cases that never get put on twitter at all?

I'm equally sure there are, and have said so many times.

Why do you think what you see actually represents what's happening?

I don't. If I did, I would be pointing out that your predictions are entirely wrong and there was nothing to discuss at all, and transpeople appear to be the least offensive demographic on the planet, and imposter transpeople abusing the loophole appear not to exist at all.

Why do you think your expectations are correctly calibrated? This seems like a pretty un-safe assumption to me.

Just broad brush +/-, based on population, sex offender conviction rates, and transpeople percentages. Nothing to bet the farm on for accuracy to a fraction of a percent, but in the right amount of zeros range.

That's not really much of an excuse for his behavior.

There's no good excuse for his behavior. My best guess is he is a lonely sad sack who kind of thought he was completely alone and chose a very poor time to enjoy the pleasure of his own company. Pathetic and wrong, but I don't think he is the poster boy for trannys behaving badly.

 

[Ziggurat]

If you are treating males as a category, in the same way that you would treat a jaguar or leopard then that seems like misandry to me.

We can split males into two groups: those who self-exclude from female intimate spaces, and those who do not.

A policy of excluding males from female intimate spaces does nothing to the first group. It has no effect on them whatsoever. It only actually affects the second group. And you know what? As a member of the first group, I have absolutely no problem treating that second group as if they're a threat. Do you understand why?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I totally get what you're saying. Do you get that the way you phrased it is incredibly insulting to us guys who have spent much of our adult lives being no threat whatsoever to women in any way, shape or form, and being their active allies and partners?

I'm sorry that you feel offended by the very obvious fact that males are bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than females... and the recognition that females are only able to exist as near-equals in society *because* we managed to convinced enough males that they should *let* us do so.

You would never say you are almost constantly in fear of being raped or murdered by black people, would you? Phrasing and all that.

Well, I never said that I was almost constantly in fear of being raped or murdered by males either, so...

 

[Emily's Cat]

Trans people are a tiny percentage of the population. Do we cater policy to them?

Bad transpeople are an even tinier percentage of that tiny percentage. Do we use that as justification to establish policy against them?

But you seem surprised that we *only* see reports of males with transgender identities behaving inappropriately or threateningly toward females in female-specific spaces once every couple of weeks...

 

[Ziggurat]

The Fairfax prosecutor was unusually lenient

Was it actually unusual, though? What's the basis for comparison? Our sample size is two counties. One of them let it slide, one of them didn't. I'm not confident about extrapolating that, and I'm not sure why you are.

There's no good excuse for his behavior. My best guess is he is a lonely sad sack who kind of thought he was completely alone and chose a very poor time to enjoy the pleasure of his own company. Pathetic and wrong, but I don't think he is the poster boy for trannys behaving badly.

It may be true that he meant no harm. But so what? Whatever his intent, he was still acting inappropriately. And his inappropriate actions were still enabled by self-ID policies. This has nothing to do with him being a poster boy for trans identifying males. It's about what self-ID policies enable. And self-ID policies enable these sorts of outcomes.

 

[Thermal]

We can split males into two groups: those who self-exclude from female intimate spaces, and those who do not.

A policy of excluding males from female intimate spaces does nothing to the first group. It has no effect on them whatsoever.

It kinda does. A Nazi sending only Jews to the camp affects a German, even if he is not Jewish.

It only actually affects the second group. And you know what? As a member of the first group, I have absolutely no problem treating that second group as if they're a threat. Do you understand why?

Pick me! Pick me! Because they might be? But in practice, they don't seem to be. Meanwhile those darlings from the first group are raping away without throwing on a wig.

 

[Thermal]

I'm sorry that you feel offended by the very obvious fact that males are bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than females... and the recognition that females are only able to exist as near-equals in society *because* we managed to convinced enough males that they should *let* us do so.

Again with males are just ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. You can't even give us any credit for wanting to not rape or murder women unless you convince us not to?

Well, I never said that I was almost constantly in fear of being raped or murdered by males either, so...

An analogy of a polar bear and a locked cage just sprung to mind for some reason...