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Traditional Values

Pauliesonne

Bi Gi
Pauliesonne
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Jan 2, 2006
Messages
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Penn and Teller : BS! season 3 will be coming to the UK soon and one of the episodes is about " so-called " traditional values.

I was just wondering what the americans here generally think of these " so-called " tradtional values "?

and if you can help it, please don't post any spoilers for the episode......
 
Pauliesonne said:
I was just wondering what the americans here generally think of these " so-called " tradtional values "?
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Traditional values aren't that bad at all. They may not be the Next Big Thing, but they seemed to have worked for my parents and their grandparents before them. I'm in my mid 30s and they are actually starting to look pretty good to me right now.

If you're asking for a description of traditional values, they mainly have to do with family life - finding a career, getting married, settling down, beating your children, buying a house, paying your bills, etc...

Hell, I'm even planting a vegetable garden this year.
 
Cylinder said:
If you're asking for a description of traditional values, they mainly have to do with family life - finding a career, getting married, settling down, beating your children, buying a house, paying your bills, etc....
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Oh. If that is the definition you are using, then I am opposed to traditional values.
 
Which particualr set of traditional values are being discussed? late 20th Century? 19th. 18th.................

And from from what cultures
 
Cylinder said:
Traditional values aren't that bad at all. They may not be the Next Big Thing, but they seemed to have worked for my parents and their grandparents before them. I'm in my mid 30s and they are actually starting to look pretty good to me right now.
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I'm guessing you aren't African-American.
 
Ryokan said:
Or gay.

Or an atheist.
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or female.

The trouble with "traditional values" is that they are nothing but nostaligia enshriend as public policy.
Three words to strike fear into any UK Conservitives, Back. To. Basics.
I'm sure that Pauliesonne can remeber back to the early 90's.
 
brodski said:
slavery, segrigation, lynchings. You know, from the "good old days".
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Who says those are "traditional values"?

The problem here is that no one has said what traditional values really means. It is too easy to point to some beliefs from the past which were abhorrent, label them "traditional values" and then smear anything that could be a traditional value with the same brush.
 
I don't know that I can argue this, having seen the episode, but that won't stop me.

Essentially, "tradional values" is an empty phrase tossed about freely by anyone lamenting the decline of whatever moral standard they felt comfortable in. Every value system, regardless of how laudable or base can probably claim some kind of "tradition". Traditional cannibal values, for example, are both values and a tradition, so long as somebody has been... well, eating somebody else for any amount of time.

The rosy nostalgia for the "good old days" of yore is a constant. I, for one, dearly miss those wonderous days when we didn't refridgerate our food, did our business in a freestanding closet in the backyard and the wimmin and darkies weren't casting votes, thus ruining the caste society of us rich white landowning males, a traditional value, I might add, that we been enjoying since time immemorial.

So if you want to define which tradtional value or system of traditional values you want to debate, I'll be glad to throw my buck-oh-five in on that.
 
Cylinder said:
If you're asking for a description of traditional values, they mainly have to do with family life - finding a career, getting married, settling down, beating your children, buying a house, paying your bills, etc...
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Bolding and Italics mine.

Really??? :eek: :eye-poppi

Otherwise, Tirdun pretty well summed up what I was going to say, so no need to repeat what has been expressed so well.
 
Thanz said:
Who says those are "traditional values"?

The problem here is that no one has said what traditional values really means. It is too easy to point to some beliefs from the past which were abhorrent, label them "traditional values" and then smear anything that could be a traditional value with the same brush.
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But that's the whole point isn't it, glorifying "traditional values" is all about nostalgia, idealizing a past society whilst ignoring inconvenient historical facts.
A "value" should be good or bad on it's own merits, not because it was espoused during some mythical golden age.
Anyone who presents "traditional values" as intrinsically good, because society was better "then" (whenever "then" may have been), is in serious need of reminding that that society had it's problems too.
That does not mean that all values which may be labeled "traditional" are intrinsically bad, that line of thinking is just as flawed as labeling all "traditional" values as good.
 
Thanz said:
Who says those are "traditional values"?
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Why aren't they?

They were certainly societal values, and they were held by tradition (ever hear the KKK's arguments? "maintain the purity of the white race" and such carp?) It's all about tradition, and they are things that are valued.
 
"Traditional values" is a meaningless catch phrase employed by politicians to appeal to the ignorant. I've never once seen it quantified.
 
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