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This kid has no conscience

Soapy Sam said:
And what will that achieve?
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It will achieve a measure of justice and closure for the family members of the people he murdered for no good reason. If thats what your talking about. A double murderer deserves more than a slap on the wrist. If he can kill two innocent women and smile about it then society needs to be protected from him until his life is over.
 
Putting him away for 40 years.
What will that achieve?
Let me clarify:-
Will it rehabilitate him?
Will it punish him?
Will he even notice?
Will he be sane at the end?
Is he sane to start with?


Alternate suggestion.
Execution by injection of anaesthetic, followed by removal of vital organs for transplant surgery.
Debt to society- to whatever extent possible, repaid.
Debt in terms of 50 years feeding- avoided.

Call me a cynic- but...
 
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I guess people want a prison sentence because it makes them feel safe.

They don't want to know the society cares about it's members. They don't want anyone trying to understand and help mentally ill people, or try prevent situations like this. They simply want to know that once someone kills another person, that someone will be cruelly punished for the rest of their lives.

Because we all know that's what safety really is; hurting other people after the damage has been done.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Putting him away for 40 years.
What will that achieve?
Let me clarify:-
Will it rehabilitate him?
Will it punish him?
Will he even notice?
Will he be sane at the end?
Is he sane to start with?


Alternate suggestion.
Execution by injection of anaesthetic, followed by removal of vital organs for transplant surgery.
Debt to society- to whatever extent possible, repaid.
Debt in terms of 50 years feeding- avoided.

Call me a cynic- but...
Click to expand...

Actually, because of the costs of the trials and appeals, the death penalty is more expensive than life-time incarceration.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Putting him away for 40 years.
What will that achieve?
Let me clarify:-
Will it rehabilitate him?
Will it punish him?
Will he even notice?
Will he be sane at the end?
Is he sane to start with?


Alternate suggestion.
Execution by injection of anaesthetic, followed by removal of vital organs for transplant surgery.
Debt to society- to whatever extent possible, repaid.
Debt in terms of 50 years feeding- avoided.

Call me a cynic- but...
Click to expand...

I would have no problem with that. :)
 
Mirrorglass said:
I guess people want a prison sentence because it makes them feel safe.

They don't want to know the society cares about it's members. They don't want anyone trying to understand and help mentally ill people, or try prevent situations like this.
Click to expand...
That's a nice strawman you have there. Are you going to beat it with a stick or burn it to the ground?
 
bookitty said:
Actually, because of the costs of the trials and appeals, the death penalty is more expensive than life-time incarceration.
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That can change. It's not a real cost. It's a convenience cost.
The reason there are so many appeals is because the system is unreliable and lawyers like to cover their arses. If air flight was as safe as legal convictions, how many people would fly anywhere? Yet flying is the safest way to travel- at least in terms of death per mile.
What we need to do is improve the legal system.
Making lawyers pay for their mistakes would be a place to start. But it's lawyers who make the laws, so there's no danger that will happen.
 
Soapy Sam said:
That can change. It's not a real cost. It's a convenience cost.
The reason there are so many appeals is because the system is unreliable and lawyers like to cover their arses. If air flight was as safe as legal convictions, how many people would fly anywhere? Yet flying is the safest way to travel- at least in terms of death per mile.
What we need to do is improve the legal system.
Making lawyers pay for their mistakes would be a place to start. But it's lawyers who make the laws, so there's no danger that will happen.
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In you are putting people to death, it's a bad idea to cut back on appeals. Especially if they are based on new evidence. It's probably not a good idea to set limits for the amount that an attorney will be paid on these trials and appeals because it would be too easy to say that the prisoner did not get adequate representation. Which leads to more appeals and more expense.

The legal system could probably use some adjustment, most systems could benefit from some housekeeping. But I am not sure what you mean by "making lawyers pay for their mistakes."
 
Giggywig said:
That's a nice strawman you have there. Are you going to beat it with a stick or burn it to the ground?
Click to expand...

It wasn't intended to be so much a strawman as hyperbole, commenting on certain attitudes. It always bothers me when people speak of cases like this as if everything went well; the evil murderer will be punished, and justice will have been done. No thought is spared for the situation of the obviously mentally unstable perpetrator, and on whether he could have been helped (or god forbid, whether he still could be).

To put it simply, when I look at this case, I don't think "Good, justice was done" but "Man, why did no-one predict this"? And it pains me to see people take glee in the future suffering of the perpetrator, never stopping to consider whether the society has any responsibility for not preventing the crime in the first place.

And lastly, it really annoys me when people say this person should be locked away for life, no chance for parole. The kid is seventeen, and totally messed in the head. With therapy, in 20 or 30 years he could be fixed. He also might not be, but I don't see taking away all chance of freedom, no matter what, as anything but cruelty in the name of a flimsy concept of justice.
 
Mirrorglass said:
It wasn't intended to be so much a strawman as hyperbole, commenting on certain attitudes. It always bothers me when people speak of cases like this as if everything went well; the evil murderer will be punished, and justice will have been done. No thought is spared for the situation of the obviously mentally unstable perpetrator, and on whether he could have been helped (or god forbid, whether he still could be).

To put it simply, when I look at this case, I don't think "Good, justice was done" but "Man, why did no-one predict this"? And it pains me to see people take glee in the future suffering of the perpetrator, never stopping to consider whether the society has any responsibility for not preventing the crime in the first place.

And lastly, it really annoys me when people say this person should be locked away for life, no chance for parole. The kid is seventeen, and totally messed in the head. With therapy, in 20 or 30 years he could be fixed. He also might not be, but I don't see taking away all chance of freedom, no matter what, as anything but cruelty in the name of a flimsy concept of justice.
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It would nice to see justice evolve into a system which helps victims and perpetrators, rather than just as a win/lose scenario but I don't it see that happening anytime soon.
 
Mirrorglass said:
It wasn't intended to be so much a strawman as hyperbole, commenting on certain attitudes. It always bothers me when people speak of cases like this as if everything went well; the evil murderer will be punished, and justice will have been done. No thought is spared for the situation of the obviously mentally unstable perpetrator, and on whether he could have been helped (or god forbid, whether he still could be).

To put it simply, when I look at this case, I don't think "Good, justice was done" but "Man, why did no-one predict this"? And it pains me to see people take glee in the future suffering of the perpetrator, never stopping to consider whether the society has any responsibility for not preventing the crime in the first place.

And lastly, it really annoys me when people say this person should be locked away for life, no chance for parole. The kid is seventeen, and totally messed in the head. With therapy, in 20 or 30 years he could be fixed. He also might not be, but I don't see taking away all chance of freedom, no matter what, as anything but cruelty in the name of a flimsy concept of justice.
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For "society" to help, we need different values. I believe in compassion, prevention, and rehabilitation but the older I get the less chance I see of implementing those. They are expensive, the results are unproven.

"Society" is an arrogant selfish mob whose reactions are based on the emotional trigger of the moment and not the long term consequences to individual human beings. There will be little help from that corner. Thankfully, individuals can make a difference in their own small sphere.
 
Well it does make me feel safer when the murderers of this country are placed behind bars for life. This punk killed two innocent people and here the punk is smiling about it??? How could society actually help this little monster and keep its innocent citizens safe? Lock him up for life.
 
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