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This kid has no conscience

I don't choose not to have empathy for this piece of crap. I simply don't. And yes, it is possible to not have empathy for pieces of crap, but to have it for normal people.

And yet you state you would find it funny if people were afraid of you.

But I digress; this isn't really about you, specifically. I'm simply attempting to explain that I believe that people who think they can simply decide who has human rights and who doesn't are the strongest argument against democracy I know of.
 
And yet you state you would find it funny if people were afraid of you.

Only because they would be irrational, unfounded fears (unless they planned to hurt someone that I care about).

But I digress; this isn't really about you, specifically. I'm simply attempting to explain that I believe that people who think they can simply decide who has human rights and who doesn't are the strongest argument against democracy I know of.

Who says what human rights are? You? It is a good thing that people can lose some of their rights such as freedom if they do certain things like kill people. If not, how the **** are we supposed to stop people who wish to causes others harm?
 
I would also like to point out that whining about democracy rule, especially concerning murderers, by someone who thinks he has a right to control others' bodies is one of the more laughable notions I have ever heard.

Or maybe Mirrorglass thinks he should be Emporer of the Universe?
 
Dtugg, two questions:

1. Suppose that you did find someone who tortured and killed someone in your family. One of this person's family members finds out where you are. Should they do the same to you? Why or why not?

2. Would your last name happen to be Hatfield, by any chance?
 
Only because they would be irrational, unfounded fears (unless they planned to hurt someone that I care about).



Who says what human rights are? You? It is a good thing that people can lose some of their rights such as freedom if they do certain things like kill people. If not, how the **** are we supposed to stop people who wish to causes others harm?

None of that has anything to do with a sadistic desire to hurt criminals, though. It does nothing to help anyone; it's only giving in to animal desires, no different from other violent crimes.

I would also like to point out that whining about democracy rule, especially concerning murderers, by someone who thinks he has a right to control others' bodies is one of the more laughable notions I have ever heard.

Or maybe Mirrorglass thinks he should be Emporer of the Universe?

Sigh. Please lay off the passive-agressive cross-thread nonsense. You're not twelve.
 
Dtugg, two questions:

1. Suppose that you did find someone who tortured and killed someone in your family. One of this person's family members finds out where you are. Should they do the same to you? Why or why not?

2. Would your last name happen to be Hatfield, by any chance?


They could if they wanted to. It would be risk I would be willing to take.
 
None of that has anything to do with a sadistic desire to hurt criminals, though. It does nothing to help anyone; it's only giving in to animal desires, no different from other violent crimes.

Putting criminals in prison forever helps people because pieces of crap in prison are no longer a threat to society. Their likely suffering in prison is a bonus. If you were talking about what I said about personally hurting some piece of crap that hurt someone that I care about, I clearly said that I don't think such actions should be state sanctioned so I don't know what your original point point was. Not to mention that killing a criminal does benifit society: dead people can't hurt others anymore.

Sigh. Please lay off the passive-agressive cross-thread nonsense. You're not twelve.

Hey I understand that having your hypocricy pointed is uncomfortable. If you would like to avoid that in the future, I advise that you avoid making hypocritical statements.
 
Putting criminals in prison forever helps people because pieces of crap in prison are no longer a threat to society. Their likely suffering in prison is a bonus. If you were talking about what I said about personally hurting some piece of crap that hurt someone that I care about, I clearly said that I don't think such actions should be state sanctioned so I don't know what your original point point was.

Whether you think it should be state sanctioned or not is really quite irrelevant. You are clearly willing to treat people as if they had no human rights, and that isn't something I approve of.

It's obvious that ideas as crazy as yours won't become state sanctioned in a civilized country; if I thought differently, I might be afraid. But that doesn't mean the ideas aren't still crazy, and to a small extent, dangerous.

Hey I understand that having your hypocricy pointed is uncomfortable. If you would like to avoid that in the future, I advise that you avoid making hypocritical statements.

I'm rubber, you're glue, eh? Smooth.
 
Whether you think it should be state sanctioned or not is really quite irrelevant. You are clearly willing to treat people as if they had no human rights, and that isn't something I approve of.

It's obvious that ideas as crazy as yours won't become state sanctioned in a civilized country; if I thought differently, I might be afraid. But that doesn't mean the ideas aren't still crazy, and to a small extent, dangerous.



I'm rubber, you're glue, eh? Smooth.

Actually it matters quite a bit with regards to whatever point you were trying to make about tyranny of democracy. Yes, I personally could not care less about the human rights of a hypothetical piece of garbage who tortured and murdered somebody that I care about. Yes, the rest of this scumbag's short life would be unimaginable pain if I could make it happen. But since both of us agree that this shouldn't and won't be state policy in any civilized country, what exactly does it have to do with democracy? Surely I could do the same thing I a country where, for example, you are the benevolent dictator.
 
Actually it matters quite a bit with regards to whatever point you were trying to make about tyranny of democracy. Yes, I personally could not care less about the human rights of a hypothetical piece of garbage who tortured and murdered somebody that I care about. Yes, the rest of this scumbag's short life would be unimaginable pain if I could make it happen. But since both of us agree that this shouldn't and won't be state policy in any civilized country, what exactly does it have to do with democracy? Surely I could do the same thing I a country where, for example, you are the benevolent dictator.

Ah, now I get it. I apologize; this was a matter of me using ambiguous language.

It wasn't my intent to make any point about democracy; I'm not really against it, as I believe it's both the best option and the only feasible one. The point I was trying to make was simply that I consider your ideas extremely distasteful, and that it greatly saddens me that such a large amount of people share them. Referring to it as an "argument against democracy" was merely hyperbole in effort to make the point more effectively - something that unfortunately backfired.
 
Sentencing inevitably has two aspects; a penalty for the crime, and a period for rehabilitation. Different countries place different emphasis on each - the Scandanavian models discussed by other posters previously tend to focus on shorter sentencing, even for serious crimes, with considerable emphasis on rehabilitation. This, they suggested, resulted in lower overall crime rates (specifically re-offending).

(snip)

On a final note, we also have to remember that crime is very often a symptom of underlying problems. This is not to excuse individuals from their actions, but we have to recognise that - across the industrialised west - we are left with major social inclusion issues, challenges around the breakdwon of the family unit, the "call of the street", and major challenges around poor education. If we are to be successful in reducing crime then we need to look not just at our sentencing and rehabilitation regimes, but also how we stop them occurring. Otherwise we're shutting the gate after the horse has bolted - and perhaps giving it a good whipping to teach it a lesson.

Can't remember which Discovery Channel/HBO/something else show on which I heard a warden at a Louisiana state penitentiary make an astute observation about his prisoners: "The concept of rehabilitation presumes that the individual was habilitated in the first place. This is frequently not the case anymore."

I have often wondered if the comparably low crime rates in westernized countries can be attributed in part to more cultural cohesion and identification as compared to the US that only has its code of law as the expected standard of behavior.
 
There was something on the news today about an initiative to instil empathy in school-age children. Sounds like the USA could do with a dose of that.

Rolfe.
 
There was something on the news today about an initiative to instil empathy in school-age children. Sounds like the USA could do with a dose of that.

Rolfe.

Give me one good reason that people in the USA should have empathy for murderers.
 
No I am better than him. This hypothetical guy who tortured and murdered my family did it because he is a sadistic **** who likes to make people feel pain for no other reason than he is evil. I would do it back to him, because he is a sadistic **** who likes to make people feel pain, and thus the same thing should happen to him.



It would make me laugh.

With you on the gun thing and the other - though I am getting really tired of the "because you want to torture them you are just like them" load of fecal matter. On that basis, our best and bravest soldiers are just murdering scum like the terrorists they are fighting because they are killing terrorists. Don't believe either. I was exposed to hundreds of tv shows/films growing up that advanced that theory and it was clear it was a load - the bad guy had always killed several people and occasionally did things that were implied but not stated in the script - hey, think Joker out of Batman.
As to the guns, no one of good will and action should need to fear me with a gun - nor you, I suspect. Others, well.........
 
I don't choose not to have empathy for this piece of crap. I simply don't. And yes, it is possible to not have empathy for pieces of crap, but to have it for normal people.

Also absolutely true. My empathy is for the victims. All of it.

Possibly too strongly, but I just can't see it any other way.
 
And yet you state you would find it funny if people were afraid of you.

But I digress; this isn't really about you, specifically. I'm simply attempting to explain that I believe that people who think they can simply decide who has human rights and who doesn't are the strongest argument against democracy I know of.

As do I. As stated above, there is no reason for a person not causing harm to others to fear me with a gun (nor, I assume, dtugg).

I would also find it funny (in the sense of silly, pointless, unthinking) if someone did. If the gun is out and pointed at someone, that someone is dangerous and a menace. Other than practice, I do not pull weapons just for fun or to impress people - their purpose is to halt things that need halting for safety's sake.
 
Dtugg, two questions:

1. Suppose that you did find someone who tortured and killed someone in your family. One of this person's family members finds out where you are. Should they do the same to you? Why or why not?

2. Would your last name happen to be Hatfield, by any chance?

1) No - the initial crime was their relative's doing - they are simply adding to the crime not acting legitimately. This is exactly equivalent to the relative killing/assaulting jurors, judge or police when a person is jailed/executed for a crime. Good try, but no prize. (Note, if a relative did try that, they had better be very good at what they do).

2) Also no - that was a silly and pointless example of Afghanistan or other backwater of humanity. Family vendettas are silliness - you get the bad guy, that should end it - regardless of how he's got. You do not harm others unless they try to keep you from him and you have no other option that does not involve stopping or letting him go.
 

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