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The Watchmaker

Meadmaker
Most ID proponents are creationists who don't believe in evolution, theistic or otherwise.
Ahem, I’ve already mentioned Behe and his supporters.

Behe believes in evolution, but because he also believes in intelligent design, he believes that the evolution must have been theistic.

It is possible to believe in theistic evolution without believing in intelligent design.
No it’s not. Theistic evolution is intelligent design. Think about it. Theistic evolution is evolution guided by god. Intelligent design, as defined by Behe is evolution that was started and guided by god.

One sure way to lose an argument is by telling someone else what they think, and getting it wrong.
Yep, which is why you shouldn’t do it anymore. :)

Ossai
 
No it’s not. Theistic evolution is intelligent design. Think about it. Theistic evolution is evolution guided by god. Intelligent design, as defined by Behe is evolution that was started and guided by god.

The key feature of "intelligent design" is that it states that the evidence for design is present in biological systems. They claim it is a scientific theory.

Theistic evolution makes no such claims. They say that God guided evolution, but this belief makes no claims about God being detectable in the process.

Intelligent Design claims to be scientific. Theistic evolution does not claim to be scientific.

You could express it as a series of questions.

1. Did evolution happen?
2. Did God play a role in evolution?
3. Can you detect, through observation and reason, without faith, that God played a role in the creation of life? (Or the evolution of life, if you believe that sort of thing?)

If you answered no to the first question, that's creationism.
If you answered yes to the second question, that's theistic evolution.
If you answered yes to the third question, that's intelligent design.

If you answered yes to 2, but no to three, you believe in theistic evolution without ID. That's most Christians.
If you answered yes to 2, and yes to 3, you believe in theistic evolution and ID. That's Michael Behe and some of his friends.
If you answered no to 1 and yes to 3, that's a typical ID believer.
If you answered no to 1 and no to 3, that's just a plain old creationist. This set includes the folks who think God buried dinosaur bones to test our faith.
 

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