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The Scole Experiments

Mark,

I believe on TVTalkshows you said that you couldn't explain all the phenomena that were observed, but that you could come up with plausible mundane explanations for some (or many?). If I'm not misremembering what you said, could you give a couple of examples of phenomena that in your opinion didn't lend themselves to readily apparent mundane explanations? (I'm not suggesting here that there *couldn't* be mundane explanations, I'm just interested in any observed phenomena for which mundane explanations don't readily come to mind.)

Mike
 
Originally posted by Mike D.
Hi Mark,

Glad you've joined thread. I've been hoping that you would!

Thanks. It's one of my favorites, as you know.

I don't have the scientific background that you have, but when I said in my first post that I thought that *some* controls had been employed, but not the crucial one of infared cameras, I was thinking of things like having the mediums wear luminous armbands. Couldn't this be considered a kind of control?

Not really. At least not in my opinion. If I recall correctly, only the mediums wore the armbands, not the investigators or any of the guests. Although I see no reason to suspect the investigators of fraud, the point is, that without armbands on them, this can't be controlled for. Also, the armbands were just held on on with velcro. Again, the expectation was that someone would be able to hear if any of the mediums tried to remove the bands. More silliness.

How do you feel about the assertion that equipment was needed to produce some of the phenomena, and that such equipment was never found.

Not sure what you mean here. Are you referring to the Germanium receptor?

What about the Scole group's holding of seances in other countries and in unfamiliar rooms. Do you think it would have been difficult for them to function under such circumstances?

Mike


More difficult? Sure. But, if I remember correctly, the phenomena was much reduced when the group was on the road. Less in the way of film evidence and apports and more spirit voices and the like. Of course, Brian Hurst reported Spirit cats and dogs, and when there were photographic incidents, they were accompianied by mysterious "Spirit Lightning" flashes in the corner of the room. (The results of which were later reproduced with blank polaroid film and a pen-light.)
 
Mike D. said:
Mark,

I believe on TVTalkshows you said that you couldn't explain all the phenomena that were observed, but that you could come up with plausible mundane explanations for some (or many?). If I'm not misremembering what you said, could you give a couple of examples of phenomena that in your opinion didn't lend themselves to readily apparent mundane explanations? (I'm not suggesting here that there *couldn't* be mundane explanations, I'm just interested in any observed phenomena for which mundane explanations don't readily come to mind.)

Mike
Click to expand...

I do remember saying that, but I don't recall what I was referring to specifically at the time. On a related issue though, I do recall saying originally that I saw no reason to suppose that the mediums would have to have infra red or light gathering goggles to navigate the room in darkness. Since then I have changed my mind, There was one incident in particular that caused my reversal. You may remember one point when Keen was trying to make hand written notes in the dark. One of the spirits pointed out to him that he had forgotten to flip the page and was writing over his own notes. I believe that in order for a fraud to have detected this, they would needed some sort of night vision tech.
 
Mark,

I thought that the assumption was that if the armbands were removed, that, since they were luminous, their removal would be seen, not necessarily heard. But I've not yet read the official report.

As for equipment, I was not referring to the germanium receptor, but to the assertion on the part of some sitters that bulky, elaborate equipment would have neen needed to produce some of the effects they observed.

Mike
 
Mark,

I guess a medium could slip out of the armbands and leave them in place, thus giving the appearance that the medium was still there.

Mike
 
Germanium receptor :confused:

Do you think that the Scole Group knew how gullible the investigators were before they started, or was there an indication that the first couple of sessions were "simpler" so that the Group could feel out just how much they could get away with?

~~ Paul
 
Paul,

The link I provided for Nucular above,

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/foy/scole.htm

gives Robin Foy's own account of the alleged history of the Scole group.

As for the Germanium receptor, I know that the group used one and took it with them when they traveled. But I don't know what it is alleged to have done. I hope Mark or dharlow, having read the official report, will have something to say about it.

Mike
 
Mike D. said:
Mark,

I guess a medium could slip out of the armbands and leave them in place, thus giving the appearance that the medium was still there.

Mike
Click to expand...

I think it would be pretty simple to pull open one of the armbands with ones teeth without being detected, or failing that "hook" the leading edge of the band onto the blankets that lined the chairs and slowly pull it off. With that much distraction and misdirection going on, I don't think it'd be too difficult at all.
 
Germanium

Page 262 of the report:

Chapter VIII-The Phenomena - Tape Recordings and Diagram

This describes the initial request for germanium and the reason for its presence. It was alleged that the germanium was required in order to record the voice of the commmunicaing spirit on tape without a microphone. Some mics use germanium but there is more then just the germanium itself in such a circuit. Germanium is a semi-conductor that has been largely replaced by silicon.

Ellison, familiar with this says if you can do things with a germanium crystal electronic voice production might be possible.

He goes on stating if you can move a piece of germanium around and press it in a certain way, you might produce electric charges which might be used to speak when amplified and put through a speaker.

To which the spirit communictor Joseph
responds "yes we know (laughter). We've done it!"

The rest of this part of the account then deals with the request for a coherer, a device developed by Lodge who used gemanium (disovered by Winkler in 1886) for this in a wireless crystal radio device in 1894 he called by this name.

Ellison brought the germanium with him for the next sitting which was No. 16 on Nov 9, 1996. However judging from the diagrams of the room for various sessions the investigators continued to record all that transpired on audio tapes ussing tape recorders and ordinary microphones.

Germanium diodes are recommended by some electronic voice phenomenon researchers as semi-conductors which can be used to record EVP messages. You can buy them cheaply in Radio Shack.
 
Mike D. said:
Mark,

Near the end of this,

http://www.esalenctr.org/display/confpage.cfm?confid=9&pageid=91&pgtype=1

what do you think of the assertion of the alleged difficulty of the mediums moving about in the dark without being detected?

Mike
Click to expand...

Fontana grossly dramatizes and exagerrates the complexity of what the mediums would have had to do. His rapid-fire account is suggestive of one person leaping around a room in the dark performing one illusion after another with no regard for detection or personal safety, instead of as many as four practiced people working together slowly and cautiously over a 3 hour period.

Actors and stage hands do as much and more with the same glo-tape to guide them on a larger scale, faster and on a nightly basis.
 
Mark,

Dr. Alan Gauld, one of the sitters at Scole, and a member of the SPR, emerged as a critic of Scole. Would you be willing to briefly summarize the thrust of his arguments, as you remember them, and say whether or not you agree with them?

Mike
 
Mark,

I wish you would be in correspondence with Keen, Fontana, and the other investigators and share your criticisms with them.

Mike
 
Mike D. said:
Mark,

Dr. Alan Gauld, one of the sitters at Scole, and a member of the SPR, emerged as a critic of Scole. Would you be willing to briefly summarize the thrust of his arguments, as you remember them, and say whether or not you agree with them?

Mike
Click to expand...

I'll have to reread it Mike. I'll try to summarize it later.


I wish you would be in correspondence with Keen, Fontana, and the other investigators and share your criticisms with them.


Heh. I've already had one correspondence with Keen, (by proxy). I wasn't that tickled with his reasoning.
 
originally posted by Mark Tidwell

Actors and stage hands do as much and more with the same glo-tape to guide them on a larger scale, faster and on a nightly basis.
Click to expand...

Just curious. Do the actors and stage hands do this in such small quarters, in such close proximity to their audience?
 
Mike, thanks for posting the link to What the Scole Experiment Meant to Me, by Robin Foy. I just read it.

I don't even know where to begin. I hope with all my heart that Foy was part of the hoax, because otherwise I feel so bad for him I could cry. Jeez.

Is it possible he's an honest guy who was just duped by the Bennetts?

~~ Paul
 
Clancy said:

Just curious. Do the actors and stage hands do this in such small quarters, in such close proximity to their audience? [/B]
Click to expand...

As small as the Scole Hole? Probably not. The point is that with practice a group of people can move about in the dark, in a small area, and navigate objects using only small glo-tape markers as guides.
 
Bumped to preserve the useful comments made in this thread from any forthcoming purge, and also because I just finished reading the Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research that dealt with Scole.

I think Paul also got hold of them subsequent to the death of this thread, too. Paul (or anyone else) did you read them? What did you think?
 
I recognise 1 name - Prof Archie Roy I assume was the professor of astronomy at Glasgow Uni from whom I got some lectures. He has an interest in psi powers and was known on campus for his SF books on slumbering psi powers - or so I'm told, I'm afraid while his astronomy book was good, I couldn't get past a page or two. He's also the author of "A Sense of Something Strange" which you can google on. Ho hum.
 
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