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As an engineer, I find this video utterly fascinating. Veritasium delves into the origins of ASML's Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines, from the first concepts imagined by Japanese scientist Hiroo Kinoshita in the 1980s, who was openly mocked for his ideas, through all the work done at Cornell and Lawrence Livermore and many other places, all the way to development and production of working machines that pretty much make the vast majority of the chips used in all our modern devices today.
The engineering on display here is truly, utterly insane - the video is 55 minutes long and really is worth the time to watch.
It's so weird to me, that we characterize as "ridiculous" and "insane" the methodical and painstaking application of known physical laws and properties, to consistently mass-produce something we all depend on and take for granted.
This is some of the most sober and sane engineering going on today. It should be celebrated as such, not sensationalized as the work of madmen.
It's so weird to me, that we characterize as "ridiculous" and "insane" the methodical and painstaking application of known physical laws and properties, to consistently mass-produce something we all depend on and take for granted.
This is some of the most sober and sane engineering going on today. It should be celebrated as such, not sensationalized as the work of madmen.
Yeah, its not really insane, but it is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ amazing.
As if having a stream of individual, microscopic sized, equally spaced, molten tin balls, traveling at 250kph isn't amazing enough, they then shoot each one three times with a laser, at a rate of 50,000 shots per second - all to create an extreme UV light source!!
I don't think its beclowning at all, at least not when I use those figures of speech, and I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone else here does either.
I don't think its beclowning at all, at least not when I use those figures of speech, and I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone else here does either.
As an engineer, I find this video utterly fascinating. Veritasium delves into the origins of ASML's Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines, from the first concepts imagined by Japanese scientist Hiroo Kinoshita in the 1980s, who was openly mocked for his ideas, through all the work done at Cornell and Lawrence Livermore and many other places, all the way to development and production of working machines that pretty much make the vast majority of the chips used in all our modern devices today.
The engineering on display here is truly, utterly insane - the video is 55 minutes long and really is worth the time to watch.
I'm sure given the age of many of us here we can remember articles about how we couldn't go "smaller", yet time and time again people have pushed past those "couldn'ts" - amazing.
I'm sure given the age of many of us here we can remember articles about how we couldn't go "smaller", yet time and time again people have pushed past those "couldn'ts" - amazing.
Yes, I remember as a student when micron-scale features were standard but the state of the art was marching toward ever more unlikely sounding scales. And I became aware of what a relentless march it was when a Siemens fabrication plant opened and almost immediately closed in NE England as by the time it was operational, it couldn't produce devices you could profitably sell any more.
YouTube. Without a clickbait title nobody would watch it. OTOH I didn't watch it because it had a clickbait title that gave no clue as to what it was about. Unfortunately this is the future of YouTube. There's so much content, and not enough time to view even the stuff you are really interested in - even when you are retired like me.
The other problem is AI slop. YouTube's primary purpose now is 'monetization'. Create videos that get clicks and you get money. Who cares whether anyone gets any value from the videos themselves - that's not important. So now 'content creators' are using AI to do the hard part, spitting out worthless videos at a ridiculous pace. The result is that viewers are getting picky, which means titles have to be even more click-baity to get their attention.
Where will it end? I don't know, but this has been going on in print media for over 100 years. The National Enquirer started publishing in 1926. The Daily Mail was founded in 1896. Here's a great cover from the Sunday Sport (also founded in 1896):-
and my favorite:-
Which was 100% true BTW.
That surprised me too. Id have put the Sunday Sport around 1986 rather than 1896.
I can remember becoming aware of it in the mid to late 80s when they were still putting a bit of effort into their absurdity. "WW2 Bomber found on moon" is one that sticks in my mind. (Claiming Hitler escaped in a "B-52" to a secret moon base, illustrated with a photo of a model B-29 in a moon crater). The next weekend's front page photo was just the crater. "Bomber disappears from moon."
That surprised me too. Id have put the Sunday Sport around 1986 rather than 1896.
I can remember becoming aware of it in the mid to late 80s when they were still putting a bit of effort into their absurdity. "WW2 Bomber found on moon" is one that sticks in my mind. (Claiming Hitler escaped in a "B-52" to a secret moon base, illustrated with a photo of a model B-29 in a moon crater). The next weekend's front page photo was just the crater. "Bomber disappears from moon."
I'm sure given the age of many of us here we can remember articles about how we couldn't go "smaller", yet time and time again people have pushed past those "couldn'ts" - amazing.
We really can't go much smaller*. We're already in the gate length of about 10 silicon atoms, (TSMC released its 3nm node in 2022, and by this stage you have to start considering inhomogeneities in the doping levels that make the actual pn-junctions which are the bases for semiconductor devices .
FWIW, This led me to the documentary " The Thinking Game " . A lot about the life of Demis Hassabis and Deep Mind.
On the surface, at least, Hassabis seems to be one of the more sane players in the AI world.
I agree with you in spirit and the same question has occurred to me.
The simple answer appears to be that more people will watch the video when it contains certain words in the title. It's unfortunate, but what would you have them do? Simply accept that fewer people will watch a video that a lot of work went into the production of?
There's another YouTube channel that I sometimes watch which does something similar, but the videos themselves are quite well done, imo. Each video is about a different kind of animal or lifeform, like dragonflies, for example. And the way they title their videos follows a formula: It's always "The Insane Biology of _________". Example:
That's one that I haven't actually watched, but it has 4 million views, so apparently a lot of people have watched it. 4 million views is pretty good for a YouTube video. Apparently the biology of every kind of animal is "insane" (haha). Of course, if that were actually true, it would probably go extinct. The biology actually makes perfect sense for whatever ecological niche the animal occupies.
Now, if they just titled the video "The Biology of _________" or even "The Amazing Biology of _________", would 4 million people have watched it? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that they have A/B tested the question and arrived at the answer that maximizes clicks.
It may even be that a few people refuse to watch it because they don't like clickbait titles. Grumpy old skeptic types maybe. Nevertheless, more people overall watch. I'm not a fan clickbait titles myself, but I'm willing to overlook the issue if the channel puts out quality content. In the end it's just capitalism doing its thing. We get clickbait titles because collectively that's what consumers of content seem to prefer. It's a revealed preference. What people claim to like, and what they actually consume don't always match.
The ridiculousness on the title is based on the ridicule the whole idea received from the start. Watch the video, smartcooky. Being laughed at conferences makes 'ridiculousness' just part of the development history.
Heck, started showing it to Moebob's son, his first reaction (as a welder and deep sea welder) was, well, ridicule. 'Not possible' ' Can't do that with tungsten, it will vaporize'. Vaporize? ◊◊◊◊, plasmolyzed is the goal. Took him a while to get out of the welding mentality to the just mind bending science and engineering of it.
When I left work the other day (in a chip FAB cleanroom), walking by the banks of what were, decades ago, state of the art litho machines. Someone remarked that 'EUV litho is what they should put in'. By happenstance, about that time, this thread started and after watching the video, not a chance. Just the laser would take a whole other building and the FAB ceilings are too low for just even the exposure apparatus itself.
Needs dedicated facilities, and when I told Moebob's son it was in production. It took a bit for him to understand it was not just that the tool itself that was in production but was currently producing product at customer FABs.
The ridiculousness on the title is based on the ridicule the whole idea received from the start. Watch the video, smartcooky. Being laughed at conferences makes 'ridiculousness' just part of the development history.
Heck, started showing it to Moebob's son, his first reaction (as a welder and deep sea welder) was, well, ridicule. 'Not possible' ' Can't do that with tungsten, it will vaporize'. Vaporize? ◊◊◊◊, plasmolyzed is the goal. Took him a while to get out of the welding mentality to the just mind bending science and engineering of it.
When I left work the other day (in a chip FAB cleanroom), walking by the banks of what were, decades ago, state of the art litho machines. Someone remarked that 'EUV litho is what they should put in'. By happenstance, about that time, this thread started and after watching the video, not a chance. Just the laser would take a whole other building and the FAB ceilings are too low for just even the exposure apparatus itself.
Needs dedicated facilities, and when I told Moebob's son it was in production. It took a bit for him to understand it was not just that the tool itself that was in production but was currently producing product at customer FABs.
Yup. Last year I had a cleanroom tour of the IMEC fabs in Leuven and the advanced CMOS research facilities in Fab 4 had such a stepper and it was absolutely huge compared to the significantly older ones I had been more familiar with. Face it, part of the reason is probably simple inertia to reduce movement. It's several stories high.
FWIW, This led me to the documentary " The Thinking Game " . A lot about the life of Demis Hassabis and Deep Mind.
On the surface, at least, Hassabis seems to be one of the more sane players in the AI world.
The ridiculousness on the title is based on the ridicule the whole idea received from the start. Watch the video, smartcooky. Being laughed at conferences makes 'ridiculousness' just part of the development history.
I agree with you in spirit and the same question has occurred to me.
The simple answer appears to be that more people will watch the video when it contains certain words in the title. It's unfortunate, but what would you have them do? Simply accept that fewer people will watch a video that a lot of work went into the production of?
There's another YouTube channel that I sometimes watch which does something similar, but the videos themselves are quite well done, imo. Each video is about a different kind of animal or lifeform, like dragonflies, for example. And the way they title their videos follows a formula: It's always "The Insane Biology of _________". Example:
That's one that I haven't actually watched, but it has 4 million views, so apparently a lot of people have watched it. 4 million views is pretty good for a YouTube video. Apparently the biology of every kind of animal is "insane" (haha). Of course, if that were actually true, it would probably go extinct. The biology actually makes perfect sense for whatever ecological niche the animal occupies.
Now, if they just titled the video "The Biology of _________" or even "The Amazing Biology of _________", would 4 million people have watched it? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that they have A/B tested the question and arrived at the answer that maximizes clicks.
It may even be that a few people refuse to watch it because they don't like clickbait titles. Grumpy old skeptic types maybe. Nevertheless, more people overall watch. I'm not a fan clickbait titles myself, but I'm willing to overlook the issue if the channel puts out quality content. In the end it's just capitalism doing its thing. We get clickbait titles because collectively that's what consumers of content seem to prefer. It's a revealed preference. What people claim to like, and what they actually consume don't always match.
For me, titles like these are a complete turn off.
It is clear that these are merely click baits, but that also means that the actual content is something other than what the title proclaims. And I don't really like being lied to.
Although They should be awarded some points for being upfront of this.
If channels that we we regularly watch turn into using click bait titles, I might be willing to put up with that, based on past content they made, but if they keep it up, off the subscription list they go.
Now. I have no illusions that our one subscription, of maybe 60 or 100 thousand will in any way be felt by them. But I have also cancelled Patreon subscriptions for reasons like this. And there, I'm certainly not one of the 100 thousand subscriptions.
All the power to the makers, if they feel that this will earn them more money. Their livelyhood and they need to put food on the table and such. But it is not something that I'd want on out YT timeline.
Yes that's true but even knowing the intended use, for me the use of "insane" to mean very impressive is jarring and sounds juvenile. It makes me expect the content to be dumbed-down and superficial.
About the same level of seriousness as a Bill & Ted style "woah, dude". The video might be visually spectacular but the chances are I'll just hate myself for being drawn in.
For more in-depth information on the various subsystems in their EUV equipment, may I suggest a YT channel called Asianometry. Clear and concise videos on this and many other tech subjects.
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