the new normal?, toward a "Psychocivilized" Society?, our "Brave New World"? ...
- Thread starter rlopez2
- Start date
-
- Tags
- surveillance
Hans
Philosopher
- Joined
- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 9,207
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
Does that work? I had a similar (albeit handmade)one on my dorm apartment door when I was an undergrad, and it was the biggest nutjob magnet ever. I could just as well have put up a sign "ATTENTION! Bother this guy for extra credit!"
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
The op must be great fun at a party.
RE: I've just realized how well my schooling prepared me for effective communication.
TU Dresden or not when I write something quickly here I am just putting out an idea. The least of my intentions is winning a Pulitzer prize and what do I think about canucks? (their they go calling me a racist again) Nothing very especial, like any kind of people you have your good aspects and your not so good ones. Those <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpsSadsgX_Qk9i6i_bJoUwQ">Just for laughs</a> prank masters are a riot, but then you were the most enthusiast participants of MK-Ultra, and when I say "you" I mean all it takes is some money floating around + some politicians + some psychologists + some people looking for jobs for such things to happen, so it could happen anywhere
RE: Writing off an entire country, with a rich culture and long history, as being just about arse-shaking
Maybe I should have said "techno-*****" society instead of techno "***** society", but anyway, I am fine if it satisfied your need to articulate your anxieties (emphasis on the technology aspect of it not on the society/people, my bad) and you don't seem to have realized I was being sarcastic about "those many Koreas" and by the way how is it exactly that "arse-shaking" doesn't count into being "culturally rich"
RE: It's really quite simple. South Korea is a very high-pressure society. This leads to high suicide rates.
Doesn't technology play an important role in this "high-pressure"?
RE: If you genuinely were are colour/race-blind as you claim, you would not have stereotyped an entire nation/ race.
and yes the day we are all "unisex", LGBTQ (whatever), colour/race-blind, politically and morally agnostic, spineless ... we will be a better people. I am so glad that I will be gone by that time!
rlopez2
TU Dresden or not when I write something quickly here I am just putting out an idea. The least of my intentions is winning a Pulitzer prize and what do I think about canucks? (their they go calling me a racist again) Nothing very especial, like any kind of people you have your good aspects and your not so good ones. Those <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpsSadsgX_Qk9i6i_bJoUwQ">Just for laughs</a> prank masters are a riot, but then you were the most enthusiast participants of MK-Ultra, and when I say "you" I mean all it takes is some money floating around + some politicians + some psychologists + some people looking for jobs for such things to happen, so it could happen anywhere
RE: Writing off an entire country, with a rich culture and long history, as being just about arse-shaking
Maybe I should have said "techno-*****" society instead of techno "***** society", but anyway, I am fine if it satisfied your need to articulate your anxieties (emphasis on the technology aspect of it not on the society/people, my bad) and you don't seem to have realized I was being sarcastic about "those many Koreas" and by the way how is it exactly that "arse-shaking" doesn't count into being "culturally rich"
RE: It's really quite simple. South Korea is a very high-pressure society. This leads to high suicide rates.
Doesn't technology play an important role in this "high-pressure"?
RE: If you genuinely were are colour/race-blind as you claim, you would not have stereotyped an entire nation/ race.
and yes the day we are all "unisex", LGBTQ (whatever), colour/race-blind, politically and morally agnostic, spineless ... we will be a better people. I am so glad that I will be gone by that time!
rlopez2
Zivan
Muse
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2016
- Messages
- 816
*there*
Elagabalus
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 7,051
rlopez2 has told us that we are living in a virtual prison. I think that accurately describes us all in a nutshell.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Agreed.
I'm in something of a dilemma as to whether or not to engage here. Does taking this stuff seriously and debating it help? I'm wondering if this would actually make it worse.
RE: Or they talk like this: I'm the victim of a vast government and tech sector conspiracy . . .
Actually, wikipedia also has an extensive entry on the topic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
but you don’t find a single line about MK-Ultra there and if you try to write something about how USG with the help of psychology departments all over the U.S. (those APA folks even had high ranking CIA idiots in their boards) does their harassment and persecution in ways that mimic schizophrenia in order to discredit their targets, they say to you that "you can’t say something like that because it hasn’t been published in the NYTimes" (I am not kidding you)
~
RE: rlopez2 has told us that we are living in a virtual prison
actually some people have stopped comparing our current situation to the Matrix, but call how/what we live in nowadays a "global, electromagnetic concentration camp"
~
RE: Kid Eager. Incoherent Cuban Occultists FTW. Or something.
Typisch! So now, you have nothing left but resorting to ad hominem non sense?
~
RE: ... Does taking this stuff seriously and debating it help? I'm wondering if this would actually make it worse.
Oh, you wanted to help? I really can't get what makes you think you should offer "help". You -seem- to be such a nice person! What is it exactly you want to "help" me with? what you consider to be my "paranoid rantings"?
You guys consider yourself really smart people, but I would encourage you to re-read, think about (probably, with some "help") some of your points. For a start, here is the definition of ego:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-concept
and also, when it comes to "helping" other people, if you knew people a bit you would understand your kind of algebraic, baseline logic is from laughable to crazy (in fact, at times I wonder if you are talking in jest):
a) I am a mentally sound, wholesome, smart person. How do I prove it to myself? Well, use technology! Therefore, if I don't get something right away (no slower than the click of a mouse), there must be something wrong with it or the person talking about it.
b) This "arse shaking" enthusiast, "racist" rlopez2 guy doesn't seem to be so enthusiastic about technology (even though he himself is a tech monkey). He seems to not only be quite paranoid, but proudly so! He doesn't engage in silly, "well-protocoled", protagonistic "back-and-forths" using the web-based framework as every sensical person does . . .
therefore: there must be something wrong with him! Great, Lord, help him! He is in need of "urgent" intervention!
rlopez2
Actually, wikipedia also has an extensive entry on the topic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
but you don’t find a single line about MK-Ultra there and if you try to write something about how USG with the help of psychology departments all over the U.S. (those APA folks even had high ranking CIA idiots in their boards) does their harassment and persecution in ways that mimic schizophrenia in order to discredit their targets, they say to you that "you can’t say something like that because it hasn’t been published in the NYTimes" (I am not kidding you)
~
RE: rlopez2 has told us that we are living in a virtual prison
actually some people have stopped comparing our current situation to the Matrix, but call how/what we live in nowadays a "global, electromagnetic concentration camp"
~
RE: Kid Eager. Incoherent Cuban Occultists FTW. Or something.
Typisch! So now, you have nothing left but resorting to ad hominem non sense?
~
RE: ... Does taking this stuff seriously and debating it help? I'm wondering if this would actually make it worse.
Oh, you wanted to help? I really can't get what makes you think you should offer "help". You -seem- to be such a nice person! What is it exactly you want to "help" me with? what you consider to be my "paranoid rantings"?
You guys consider yourself really smart people, but I would encourage you to re-read, think about (probably, with some "help") some of your points. For a start, here is the definition of ego:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-concept
and also, when it comes to "helping" other people, if you knew people a bit you would understand your kind of algebraic, baseline logic is from laughable to crazy (in fact, at times I wonder if you are talking in jest):
a) I am a mentally sound, wholesome, smart person. How do I prove it to myself? Well, use technology! Therefore, if I don't get something right away (no slower than the click of a mouse), there must be something wrong with it or the person talking about it.
b) This "arse shaking" enthusiast, "racist" rlopez2 guy doesn't seem to be so enthusiastic about technology (even though he himself is a tech monkey). He seems to not only be quite paranoid, but proudly so! He doesn't engage in silly, "well-protocoled", protagonistic "back-and-forths" using the web-based framework as every sensical person does . . .
therefore: there must be something wrong with him! Great, Lord, help him! He is in need of "urgent" intervention!
rlopez2
For those of you still wondering if people are just losing their wits, here are two pieces of news about current day, police state USA
// __ Village Voice: 2016-06-28 NYPD Watchdog Shatters Bratton’s ‘Broken Windows’ — Now What?, by NICK PINTO
When sixteen-year-old Rhamar Perkins escaped police officers who were trying to arrest him for jumping a subway turnstile in Brownsville last week, the NYPD scrambled an all-night manhunt, complete with helicopters. The mobilization was eventually called off when Perkins turned himself in to the precinct four and a half hours later, but the incident — an all-out effort to catch a boy who skipped out on a $2.75 fare — makes for a pretty tidy illustration of what policing in New York City looks like in 2016.
. . .
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/nypd-watchdog-shatters-brattons-broken-windows-now-what-8796746
~
// __ This 13-year-old boy recorded his talk with the principal — now he's being charged with an eavesdropping felony
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/13-...s-charged-eavesdropping-felony-163354136.html
~
rlopez2
// __ Village Voice: 2016-06-28 NYPD Watchdog Shatters Bratton’s ‘Broken Windows’ — Now What?, by NICK PINTO
When sixteen-year-old Rhamar Perkins escaped police officers who were trying to arrest him for jumping a subway turnstile in Brownsville last week, the NYPD scrambled an all-night manhunt, complete with helicopters. The mobilization was eventually called off when Perkins turned himself in to the precinct four and a half hours later, but the incident — an all-out effort to catch a boy who skipped out on a $2.75 fare — makes for a pretty tidy illustration of what policing in New York City looks like in 2016.
. . .
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/nypd-watchdog-shatters-brattons-broken-windows-now-what-8796746
~
// __ This 13-year-old boy recorded his talk with the principal — now he's being charged with an eavesdropping felony
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/13-...s-charged-eavesdropping-felony-163354136.html
~
rlopez2
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
Are you ever going to use the Quote feature? Or, for your purposes, the even more useful "quotation marks" button next to it that lets you tag several posts and "multi-quote" them all at once?
Please... try.
As to the rest...
Dude... you (and many others) "hear voices". Your credibility at "educating" us ends right there.
The rabbit hole is not a good place for you. Log off.
Please... try.
As to the rest...
Dude... you (and many others) "hear voices". Your credibility at "educating" us ends right there.
The rabbit hole is not a good place for you. Log off.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
I am now convinced that watching "The Matrix" can be very bad for your mental health.
You have more than 15 posts now, rlopez2, so you can include urls in your posts (which is why you are able to post wiki links). Please try to use the quote function, it makes it easier to work out to whom you are replying.
Posted By: Agatha
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
As to the rest...
Dude... you (and many others) "hear voices". Your credibility at "educating" us ends right there.
The rabbit hole is not a good place for you. Log off.
Agreed.
rlopez2: Get help, mate. You won't find what you need on this forum.
Kid Eager
Philosopher
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,296
Concur. I’m out.
The_Animus
Illuminator
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
- Messages
- 3,582
Yeah I actually read this whole thread. Fascinating. rlopez2 please seek help
Axxman300
Philosopher
Spielberg DIDN'T make the Snowden movie, Oliver Stone did. Odd that you would overlook a simple detail.
And what evil would that be exactly?
And yet NSA has a tight internal affairs enforcement.
The Chinese hacked them in the 70's? You need to show how that computer was networked without a telephone.
The average NSA employee is better read than you appear to be.
You need to demonstrate how political corruption is a recent development, and how it didn't exist in post revolutionary USA. It would be nice if you could also demonstrate that the ancient Greeks didn't engage in espionage.
Oh, is Israel loading people into boxcars and transporting them to death camps?
Show me any tool in the store, and I will show you how to kill someone with it. The problem isn't technology.
Axxman300
Philosopher
And there it is.
RE: Get help, mate. You won't find what you need on this forum.
thank you anyway for letting me know that animals don't have egos and about all those many Koreas. What kind of "help" do you get in order to arrive at such conclusions?
~
RE: Yeah I actually read this whole thread. Fascinating. rlopez2 please seek help
Again, as Snowden revelations showed, it doesn't seem to be easy to see, expose yourself as an idiot, but what puts you in the position of telling people "they need help" and, much more importantly, why exactly do they? I mean, provided your brain can articulate more than short, three-word sentences.
Way before Snowden revelations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_effect
I had been telling people about what I am talking about on this post and not all, but most would roll their eyes in the "but what does the government care about my 'breast'?" kinds of reactions that Snowden's girlfriend had when he would anxiously try to tell her about such matters.
My intention is not being protagonistic, claiming some credit in any way. What I do find interesting is people's reactions when you tell them some truth that seems to be too metabolically demanding to their brains; their own normalcy bias and assumptions.
Here is a very explicit post of mine 7 months before Snowden in their fora and those pgdp folks definitely can read sentences with more than three words:
~
// __ lies ... (by lbrtchx » 28 Nov 2012 23:19)
https://www.pgdp.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47168&start=15
"The U.S. government has quietly turned 'the land of the free' into a police state in ways that make George Orwell's 1984 read like children stories ... "
~
which I publicly posted here:
https://ipsoscustodes.wordpress.com/2018/07/22/before-snowden-on-pgdp/
~
From the little corner from which I see reality I have taken away from my own research, work, life to try to make people see what is going on, why is it so wrong and why should they care:
~
// __ The Philosopher of Surveillance. What Happens When a Failed Writer Becomes a Loyal Spy? Peter Maass
https://theintercept.com/2015/08/11/surveillance-philosopher-nsa/?comments=1#comments
~
// __ New Study Shows Mass Surveillance Breeds Meekness, Fear and Self-Censorship. Glenn Greenwald
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/28...fear-and-self-censorship/?comments=1#comments
~
RE: Spielberg DIDN'T make the Snowden movie, Oliver Stone did. Odd that you would overlook a simple detail.
I don't watch movies. I don't even own a TV set by choice. I find watching TV/movies insufferably stupid. So, I don't even know well, nor do I care about the difference between Spielberg and Oliver Stone (if any). I mean I could not even get the point about making such a movie, but the point he made you were still able to fish, it seems; even if not from the limb I was holding it.
~
RE: And what evil would that be exactly?
The kind of social experiments relating to "obedience to (what people seem to see as) 'authority'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
which have been questioned, repeated and cased to exhaustion have clearly shown that 2 out of 3 (65%, which socially means pretty much everybody (way over the critical social mass)) regardless of their religion, race, social status, ... even that angelically looking girl that loves grandpa, you could not fathom as doing harm to anyone ... would do downright inhumane things to their own, including fatally torturing them. That "morality" is a functional Hollywoodesque illusion. All they need is a mild and distant resemblance of "authority" (which basically means they just do it because they want, they find doing such things satisfying).
I had always thought in the "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" kind of way, what would that ratio be if the people doing wrong, inflicting harm to other people would be paid to do so, or are being told they are just "patriots" doing their work, what they are doing is "legal", or that those other people are Muslims, "negritos" from banana republics ... I think that NSA figure gives a pretty good estimate, which is also quite consistent with other figures.
Also, I don't read newspapers but I am old enough to remember how you would think you would never hear the end of it when it came to gringos talking about how the Chinese, Russians, Cuban, ... would spy on their own. How "unAmerican" was that?! Then when people discovered that the NSA was spying on them in ways that would not resemble anything known to humankind before no one reacted in any way, really. It was all then about "metadata".
~
RE: And yet NSA has a tight internal affairs enforcement.
Why?
If such morally deafferented NSA ******** are just "patriots" doing their "patriotic" work, why/from whom do they hide? What is it they worry about? A bunch of such idiots once went to some University in a recruiting campaign and when the students realized what was that all about they pulled their cell phones and started taking pictures of them. They ran away covering their faces. At theintercept, they published large data sets of their office chatter. It makes for some fun reading. Don't you think there must be something very wrong with anyone capable of having such ideations as "the Socrates of the NSA?" I reminded me of that guy that the Taliban captured and traded back to the U.S. military. He was saying that he thought Iraq was going to be like: "Americorps, but wit guns" (so in his mind he was not just a mercenary genocidally invading a country, based on lies). When you see people having such ideations you wonder what will be next. Also, when it comes to gringos all such ideations are ultimately based on abuse.
They have such "a tight internal affairs enforcement", as you put it, not to avoid spying by foreign states, but in order to protect themselves from shame and, as it happened in East Germany, having society at large disrespect, hate them. Of course "Vladimir Putin", the Chinese know all there is to be known about them. Even a minor player such as Castro running an open police state had been talking about their excesses and the possible related dangers of such monstrosity.
~
RE: The Chinese hacked them in the 70's? You need to show how that computer was networked without a telephone.
OK, you should make your attempts at sarcasm a bit more elaborate, because it may actually show your own idiocy (as if defending the NSA was not enough).
I did say in not such totally clear, fool-proof way:
"when the Chinese hacked their rear ends going back to the 1970's when they started to use computers"
meaning:
"the Chinese hacked their rear ends June 2015 stealing excruciatingly detailed data going back to the 1980s when they started to use computers, which content refers to all kinds of incidents definitely prior to the 1980s".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach
// __ 22 Million Affected by OPM Hack, Officials Say
https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-25-million-affected-opm-hack-sources/story?id=32332731
~
// __ Why The OPM Breach Is Such a Security and Privacy Debacle
https://www.wired.com/2015/06/opm-breach-security-privacy-debacle/
~
I for one, was cosmically glad that they owned their *** and screwed them really hard. You should read those records published by theIntercept. They went into deep (and quite laughable) soul searching awakenings. They were even publicly saying that all that data can be used to blackmail people. Oh, effing really?!? and when those kinds of people who have ideations about "the Socrates of the NSA" say, think in such ways they aren't able to see anything wrong with it.
~
RE: The average NSA employee is better read than you appear to be.
You know, I had always thought of those "NSA employees" as intellectually and morally superior. Thank you for making it clear to me. So, it is all about being a "better read"?
How is it exactly that being "better read" would make you see, read and write anything worth "reading" or giving you the spine and reasons to do so?
~
RE: You need to demonstrate how political corruption is a recent development, and how it didn't exist in post revolutionary USA.
First "political corruption" is redundant and so, it has always been around, but anyone could see it was not my point at all. What I am talking about here is the degree and control that our rulers can exert on society at large and everyone of us individually. In fact, they have such a degree of control that their main concern is keeping people unaware of it.
~
RE: It would be nice if you could also demonstrate that the ancient Greeks didn't engage in espionage.
Of course they did and I wasn't talking about the Greeks, but a moment in the history of Athenians specifically when they invented social technologies relating to their "democracy" and what it seems to have meant to them based on their manifestly factual practices:
* making the whole process totally open, totally transparent and totally participative (to them: one vote = one count)
* the "power to the people" kinds of folks they were, they did primarily vote for the actual issues at hand, not just for their "politicians" (whom they saw more as administrative officers than their rulers)
* even though the Greeks were at constant wars with each other, Athenians didn't seem to have given a ***** about "illegal immigrants" participating in their democracy, ...).
and, yes, after the Athenians on their own (without the help of the more savvy, warrying Spartans) defended themselves from the hugely more powerful Persians and beat them, they also had their "superior", imperial period.
~
RE: Oh, is Israel loading people into boxcars and transporting them to death camps?
No, AFAIK they haven't been doing that, also where are they going to "transport" them, but, don't you think you should expect more from "the region's only democracy" (TM)? What they have been doing is:
* occupying foreign/other people's land (with USG help and financing of U.S. taxpayers). They say (and apparently believe) "their God is their beneficial landlord, who gave them that land" ...
* maintaining the largest and longest concentration camps in the history of humanity even manipulating their water supplies for genocidal purposes and informing their USG buddies about it
* fatally using school children for target practices and having their "region's only democracy" judges free such individuals, because "they didn't 'intent' to kill those children" ... (you see 'intent' matters when it comes to agents and actions)
* being upset with Palestinians for not serving as their own "Warsaw ghetto Jewish police" (from whom they asked Nazis themselves for clemency)
* being upset about Palestinians not serving as labor force in the concentration camps they have instituted
...
I would ask you a question you may see as very odd, but it has still a crucial and illuminating moral payload in it. Given the (crazy and odd, I admit) options, whom do you think stand on a higher moral high ground, those who seek and go headon to grab far away land from people who can defend themselves on an equal basis or from people whom they well know can't defend themselves, even though you make such a big deal about their "hostility" because they throw stones at you which they get from their homes being bulldozed by yourself?
~
RE: Show me any tool in the store, and I will show you how to kill someone with it. The problem isn't technology.
Again, this is not what I am talking about. I would admit and I think I have stated it clearly enough that, yes, the problem isn't -entirely- about technology, but I think anyone can see my point. The problem with technology now is it has enable them to have such a degree of control on every single individual in society that they can not only entertain illusions about it, but they can actually "play God" (they think).
~
rlopez2
thank you anyway for letting me know that animals don't have egos and about all those many Koreas. What kind of "help" do you get in order to arrive at such conclusions?
~
RE: Yeah I actually read this whole thread. Fascinating. rlopez2 please seek help
Again, as Snowden revelations showed, it doesn't seem to be easy to see, expose yourself as an idiot, but what puts you in the position of telling people "they need help" and, much more importantly, why exactly do they? I mean, provided your brain can articulate more than short, three-word sentences.
Way before Snowden revelations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowden_effect
I had been telling people about what I am talking about on this post and not all, but most would roll their eyes in the "but what does the government care about my 'breast'?" kinds of reactions that Snowden's girlfriend had when he would anxiously try to tell her about such matters.
My intention is not being protagonistic, claiming some credit in any way. What I do find interesting is people's reactions when you tell them some truth that seems to be too metabolically demanding to their brains; their own normalcy bias and assumptions.
Here is a very explicit post of mine 7 months before Snowden in their fora and those pgdp folks definitely can read sentences with more than three words:
~
// __ lies ... (by lbrtchx » 28 Nov 2012 23:19)
https://www.pgdp.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47168&start=15
"The U.S. government has quietly turned 'the land of the free' into a police state in ways that make George Orwell's 1984 read like children stories ... "
~
which I publicly posted here:
https://ipsoscustodes.wordpress.com/2018/07/22/before-snowden-on-pgdp/
~
From the little corner from which I see reality I have taken away from my own research, work, life to try to make people see what is going on, why is it so wrong and why should they care:
~
// __ The Philosopher of Surveillance. What Happens When a Failed Writer Becomes a Loyal Spy? Peter Maass
https://theintercept.com/2015/08/11/surveillance-philosopher-nsa/?comments=1#comments
~
// __ New Study Shows Mass Surveillance Breeds Meekness, Fear and Self-Censorship. Glenn Greenwald
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/28...fear-and-self-censorship/?comments=1#comments
~
RE: Spielberg DIDN'T make the Snowden movie, Oliver Stone did. Odd that you would overlook a simple detail.
I don't watch movies. I don't even own a TV set by choice. I find watching TV/movies insufferably stupid. So, I don't even know well, nor do I care about the difference between Spielberg and Oliver Stone (if any). I mean I could not even get the point about making such a movie, but the point he made you were still able to fish, it seems; even if not from the limb I was holding it.
~
RE: And what evil would that be exactly?
The kind of social experiments relating to "obedience to (what people seem to see as) 'authority'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
which have been questioned, repeated and cased to exhaustion have clearly shown that 2 out of 3 (65%, which socially means pretty much everybody (way over the critical social mass)) regardless of their religion, race, social status, ... even that angelically looking girl that loves grandpa, you could not fathom as doing harm to anyone ... would do downright inhumane things to their own, including fatally torturing them. That "morality" is a functional Hollywoodesque illusion. All they need is a mild and distant resemblance of "authority" (which basically means they just do it because they want, they find doing such things satisfying).
I had always thought in the "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" kind of way, what would that ratio be if the people doing wrong, inflicting harm to other people would be paid to do so, or are being told they are just "patriots" doing their work, what they are doing is "legal", or that those other people are Muslims, "negritos" from banana republics ... I think that NSA figure gives a pretty good estimate, which is also quite consistent with other figures.
Also, I don't read newspapers but I am old enough to remember how you would think you would never hear the end of it when it came to gringos talking about how the Chinese, Russians, Cuban, ... would spy on their own. How "unAmerican" was that?! Then when people discovered that the NSA was spying on them in ways that would not resemble anything known to humankind before no one reacted in any way, really. It was all then about "metadata".
~
RE: And yet NSA has a tight internal affairs enforcement.
Why?
If such morally deafferented NSA ******** are just "patriots" doing their "patriotic" work, why/from whom do they hide? What is it they worry about? A bunch of such idiots once went to some University in a recruiting campaign and when the students realized what was that all about they pulled their cell phones and started taking pictures of them. They ran away covering their faces. At theintercept, they published large data sets of their office chatter. It makes for some fun reading. Don't you think there must be something very wrong with anyone capable of having such ideations as "the Socrates of the NSA?" I reminded me of that guy that the Taliban captured and traded back to the U.S. military. He was saying that he thought Iraq was going to be like: "Americorps, but wit guns" (so in his mind he was not just a mercenary genocidally invading a country, based on lies). When you see people having such ideations you wonder what will be next. Also, when it comes to gringos all such ideations are ultimately based on abuse.
They have such "a tight internal affairs enforcement", as you put it, not to avoid spying by foreign states, but in order to protect themselves from shame and, as it happened in East Germany, having society at large disrespect, hate them. Of course "Vladimir Putin", the Chinese know all there is to be known about them. Even a minor player such as Castro running an open police state had been talking about their excesses and the possible related dangers of such monstrosity.
~
RE: The Chinese hacked them in the 70's? You need to show how that computer was networked without a telephone.
OK, you should make your attempts at sarcasm a bit more elaborate, because it may actually show your own idiocy (as if defending the NSA was not enough).
I did say in not such totally clear, fool-proof way:
"when the Chinese hacked their rear ends going back to the 1970's when they started to use computers"
meaning:
"the Chinese hacked their rear ends June 2015 stealing excruciatingly detailed data going back to the 1980s when they started to use computers, which content refers to all kinds of incidents definitely prior to the 1980s".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach
// __ 22 Million Affected by OPM Hack, Officials Say
https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-25-million-affected-opm-hack-sources/story?id=32332731
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// __ Why The OPM Breach Is Such a Security and Privacy Debacle
https://www.wired.com/2015/06/opm-breach-security-privacy-debacle/
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I for one, was cosmically glad that they owned their *** and screwed them really hard. You should read those records published by theIntercept. They went into deep (and quite laughable) soul searching awakenings. They were even publicly saying that all that data can be used to blackmail people. Oh, effing really?!? and when those kinds of people who have ideations about "the Socrates of the NSA" say, think in such ways they aren't able to see anything wrong with it.
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RE: The average NSA employee is better read than you appear to be.
You know, I had always thought of those "NSA employees" as intellectually and morally superior. Thank you for making it clear to me. So, it is all about being a "better read"?
How is it exactly that being "better read" would make you see, read and write anything worth "reading" or giving you the spine and reasons to do so?
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RE: You need to demonstrate how political corruption is a recent development, and how it didn't exist in post revolutionary USA.
First "political corruption" is redundant and so, it has always been around, but anyone could see it was not my point at all. What I am talking about here is the degree and control that our rulers can exert on society at large and everyone of us individually. In fact, they have such a degree of control that their main concern is keeping people unaware of it.
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RE: It would be nice if you could also demonstrate that the ancient Greeks didn't engage in espionage.
Of course they did and I wasn't talking about the Greeks, but a moment in the history of Athenians specifically when they invented social technologies relating to their "democracy" and what it seems to have meant to them based on their manifestly factual practices:
* making the whole process totally open, totally transparent and totally participative (to them: one vote = one count)
* the "power to the people" kinds of folks they were, they did primarily vote for the actual issues at hand, not just for their "politicians" (whom they saw more as administrative officers than their rulers)
* even though the Greeks were at constant wars with each other, Athenians didn't seem to have given a ***** about "illegal immigrants" participating in their democracy, ...).
and, yes, after the Athenians on their own (without the help of the more savvy, warrying Spartans) defended themselves from the hugely more powerful Persians and beat them, they also had their "superior", imperial period.
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RE: Oh, is Israel loading people into boxcars and transporting them to death camps?
No, AFAIK they haven't been doing that, also where are they going to "transport" them, but, don't you think you should expect more from "the region's only democracy" (TM)? What they have been doing is:
* occupying foreign/other people's land (with USG help and financing of U.S. taxpayers). They say (and apparently believe) "their God is their beneficial landlord, who gave them that land" ...
* maintaining the largest and longest concentration camps in the history of humanity even manipulating their water supplies for genocidal purposes and informing their USG buddies about it
* fatally using school children for target practices and having their "region's only democracy" judges free such individuals, because "they didn't 'intent' to kill those children" ... (you see 'intent' matters when it comes to agents and actions)
* being upset with Palestinians for not serving as their own "Warsaw ghetto Jewish police" (from whom they asked Nazis themselves for clemency)
* being upset about Palestinians not serving as labor force in the concentration camps they have instituted
...
I would ask you a question you may see as very odd, but it has still a crucial and illuminating moral payload in it. Given the (crazy and odd, I admit) options, whom do you think stand on a higher moral high ground, those who seek and go headon to grab far away land from people who can defend themselves on an equal basis or from people whom they well know can't defend themselves, even though you make such a big deal about their "hostility" because they throw stones at you which they get from their homes being bulldozed by yourself?
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RE: Show me any tool in the store, and I will show you how to kill someone with it. The problem isn't technology.
Again, this is not what I am talking about. I would admit and I think I have stated it clearly enough that, yes, the problem isn't -entirely- about technology, but I think anyone can see my point. The problem with technology now is it has enable them to have such a degree of control on every single individual in society that they can not only entertain illusions about it, but they can actually "play God" (they think).
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rlopez2
Edited by kmortis:
Do not mask profanities. To do so violated Rule 10 of the MA
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