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The first commandment

truethat said:
Nope you've hit upon a valid argument. Also seen in Genesis 1:26.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Who is the US. I've seen it debated that the Us refers to the Trinity and other such arguments but basically it boils down to the fact that these stories are lifted from Pagan histories.
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The US is God the father and God the son. John 1 talks about this. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.'

The 'Word' is Jesus. So Jesus was with God. That is the US...
 
That's fine, from a True Believer's point of view. However, from a real-world analysis, Christianity hadn't been invented, yet, by humans. Hence the Old Testament in no way, shape, or form refers to any of that. That has all been shoehorned in by later, New Testament writers (as is well-documented elsewhere.)

Having said that, I can accept some sort of a Royal (or Holy, in this case) We/Us thing going on. However, to conclude that, you would have to be an expert in the original language and how it was used way back at that time. Did the author actually intend it that way, or was it a leftover from a partial redaction from an earlier polytheistic variation?


As far as this subject is concerned, the Pharoah's priest turned two sticks into two snakes. Clearly other gods exist, but Yahweh is the baddest of 'em, since one snake made by Him wh00ped @$$ of two snakes by the other god.
 
ned flandas said:
The US is God the father and God the son. John 1 talks about this. 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.'

The 'Word' is Jesus. So Jesus was with God. That is the US...
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It's amazing the Jews - who wrote the verses with 'us' in them - didn't realize God had a son! And don't forget the Holy Ghost. He's not chopped liver.

The 'us' verses were written by J. That's pretty old. (970 BC?) Doesn't it make better sense to surmise the 'us' verses are polytheistic in nature?
 
pgwenthold said:
Remember the context in which that was made. There were all these tribes all over the place, and they all had their gods. This commandment says, "I am the greatest of all of these."
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All tribes back then had their own pantheons, including the Israelites. A lot of them were derived and adapted from the Greek/Roman pantheon. Essentially, Yahweh was somebody's interpretation of Ares.
 
DonJunbar said:
Essentially, Yahweh was somebody's interpretation of Ares.
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While that might be true, it's highly speculative. There is a fair amount of evidence that the Hebrews worshipped at least two gods. In fact, it's right there in the Bible, where when the Hebrews fell away from the God of Israel, they worshipped Asherah. And is it coincidence that there was a Phoenician bull cult right about the time that Aaron made the Biblical Israelites a golden calf?

However, any specific identification, such as Yahweh=Ares is beyond recorded history.
 
bokonon said:
Maybe they gave him a time-out, and that's why he hasn't been parting the sea and raising the dead and healing the sick and making the sun stand still lately.

On the plus side, we haven't had any of that "kill all the firstborn" nonsense for a while either...
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No more foreskin collections from philistines either.
 
Beerina said:
That's fine, from a True Believer's point of view. However, from a real-world analysis, Christianity hadn't been invented, yet, by humans. Hence the Old Testament in no way, shape, or form refers to any of that. That has all been shoehorned in by later, New Testament writers (as is well-documented elsewhere.)
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Jesus is refered to and prophesied about all through the Old Testament
 
articulett said:
No more foreskin collections from philistines either.
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Joshua 5:3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
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I remember as a kid trudging up that hill pulling my sled - wearing mittens. It took a lot of balls to ride it to the bottom because it was such a hairy ride.
 
ned flandas said:
Jesus is refered to and prophesied about all through the Old Testament
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Name one place.

[A Messiah is prophesied, but since the Jews didn't feel Jesus was the Messiah - (Jesus never had political power) - and let's face it, it was THEIR damn Messiah, I will trust them. So xians don't get to use the 'Messiah' prophesy as evidence.]
 
Man, I'm disappointed. I was waiting for Ned Flandas to dazzle us with all those references to Jesus in the Old Testament, but nothing.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Not if you're a believer, then the "us" is simply a majestic "us" and not really a plural. Believers don't let such facts that you point out bother them.
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To me it always seemed to mean "us" - me (god) and the angels. Any problems with that?
 
JetLeg said:
To me it always seemed to mean "us" - me (god) and the angels. Any problems with that?
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Yeah..."let us make man in our image..."

What's "image" mean in this context? Oh, excuse me; someone at the door.....



Who the heck ordered the Super Industrial Size Can Of Worms???
I'm not signing for this!


Okay, anyway, I can't remember if it's in the bible or just some added-on dogma, but I do remember I was taught the angels are neuter, having no gender.

It seems, if that's true*, that "image" doesn't mean "physical form."



*I meant "biblical," as "in the bible."
 
Are the angels referred to much in the Bible at all? From memory (and it's been a while) there isn't much in the Bible about the angels in general. Specific ones are mentioned, like Michael and Gabriel, but not the angels as a race.
 
arthwollipot said:
Are the angels referred to much in the Bible at all? From memory (and it's been a while) there isn't much in the Bible about the angels in general. Specific ones are mentioned, like Michael and Gabriel, but not the angels as a race.
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Early Judaism did not have an extensive angelology. And real early 'Judaism' had other gods.
 
slingblade said:
Okay, anyway, I can't remember if it's in the bible or just some added-on dogma, but I do remember I was taught the angels are neuter, having no gender.
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I used that in my Masters thesis - genitalia are spackled smooth. So I must have also read it somewhere too. :)
 
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