The dumbing down theory

[drkitten]

It could be that if (1) is true, then lack of education can be tied to impatience...not wanting to study, not wanting to spend four years pursuing an optional level of education.

The usual term people use instead of "impatience" is "inability to defer gratification." That makes it sound more scholarly.

But the basic idea is there (and has been studied for at least forty years). The ability to defer gratification is arguably the most important personal characteristic as an indicator for success generally as well as educational success specifically.

 

[Modified]

I think you need to go do some more research. People who homeschool or unschool their kids do so in full accordance with local laws, and the kids are considered high school graduates.

Plus, you don't need to be a high school graduate to get into college. Many colleges and universities may claim to have that requirement, but if you have a high enough ACT or SAT score, they will accept you. In fact, for many universities you don't even need to apply. If you send in high enough test scores without even an application, they will just send you a letter of acceptance.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Plus, you don't need to be a high school graduate to get into college. Many colleges and universities may claim to have that requirement, but if you have a high enough ACT or SAT score, they will accept you. In fact, for many universities you don't even need to apply. If you send in high enough test scores without even an application, they will just send you a letter of acceptance.

"My son got into DeVry."
"What did he have to do, open the door?"

--Family Guy

 

[aggle-rithm]

Given how much of our course was collaborative and practical, you can imagine how miserable it was when you got assigned to one of these lazy unmotivated ass-hats in your crucial final year projects!

Don't even get me started! Urrggh!

In my Projects Management class, I did ALL the design work and development work, AND I gave the final presentation, and I wasn't even the project leader.

The rest of the team did nothing but sit in on the meetings and ask me how it was going.

 

[Quad4_72]

I think you need to go do some more research. People who homeschool or unschool their kids do so in full accordance with local laws, and the kids are considered high school graduates.

Homeschooling and Unschooling are not the same thing. While yes some unschoolers do receive high school diplomas, they do so by complying with homeschool standards. In other words, they have to take the same tests as high school or public school kids do. So that is kind of contradictory to the unschooling way. Other unschoolers have to take the GED to get their diploma.

Dembo, the author of "Motivation and Learning Strategies for College Success," agrees that the best education comes when children are self-motivated, but he says without formal matriculation some kids risk simply being left out. They may not master basic skills, they won’t receive so much as a high school diploma, and their chances for productive futures could become nonexistent. Yet he acknowledges there are alternative ways to gain college acceptance — such as taking the GED or writing an essay. And unschoolers may enroll in school, or even community college, long enough to develop something of a transcript.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15029646/

Then straight from an unschooling website:

To answer the technical question, an unschooler can get a high school diploma through the homeschooling path. This might entail taking some tests, depending on the state they are in.

And here are some common concerns from Wiki, which I agree with:

Children may receive a sub-standard education from non-credentialed, uneducated caregivers.
Children won't learn the things they will need to know in their adult lives.[16][17]
A child may not learn the same things a regular-schooling peer does, unless an educational professional controls what material is covered.[18]
Because schools provide a ready-made source of peers, unschooling children will have to have other ways to make friends in their age group.[2][16]
A child's only opportunity to experience people of other cultures and worldviews would be in a religious community, scout group, sports teams, etc. If a child isn't exposed to anything "extra", they might not be exposed to other socio-economic groups.[16]
Fear that a child may be completely unmotivated and never learn anything on their own if raised in a non-manipulated environment.[19]
A parent may fear they do not have the parenting skills required to guide and advise their children in life skills or help them pursue their interests.[17][18]
Unschooled children may have to do more legwork before college to gain credentials, such as obtaining a GED.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#cite_note-Clayton-17

 

[stilicho]

Don't even get me started! Urrggh!

In my Projects Management class, I did ALL the design work and development work, AND I gave the final presentation, and I wasn't even the project leader.

The rest of the team did nothing but sit in on the meetings and ask me how it was going.

One of those guys from your class is one of our Senior VPs now.

 

[Dot Ardella]

I've also noticed that people seem to pass when they shouldn't. My degree course could have been something really valuable and worthwhile, but literally every student who wanted to come back and rack up another year of student loan debt was allowed to. I know of at least four people who graduated with me who failed every single year of the degree, yet somehow still magically passed. Given how much of our course was collaborative and practical, you can imagine how miserable it was when you got assigned to one of these lazy unmotivated ass-hats in your crucial final year projects!

Because the institution cared more about getting those dollars from the government than it did preserving any sort of educational integrity.

In fact, I was so disgusted by the course I didn't even attend my graduation, and have never taken my "piece of paper" out of its envelope. It's totally worthless.

Just out of curiosity, what was the degree?

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Homeschooling and Unschooling are not the same thing.

You are correct but making a misleading distinction. Unschooling and homeschooling are not identical. Unschooling is a philosophy of curriculum development for homeschooling. Many homeschoolers choose to use a curriculum provided by a church group, local schools, or a commercial supplier. Unschoolers homeschool their children by a curriculum developed in cooperation with the children themselves and based on what the children are interested in learning.

Compliance with local education laws often requires children to take tests to prove their grade level. This is different than your claim that this constitutes a GED, although a homeschooled student who never took such tests, a child of missionaries who was not near a school for example, could use this as a route to a high school diploma.

In my case, I took a test of grade level several times. I was granted a diploma without any difficulty, and it was not a GED. Even if it had been, a diploma or GED is not a requirement for college, just a convenient way for the admissions officer to determine that you've met the requirement. An ACT or SAT score is plenty of proof of that as well.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Here's another observation I've made which may or may not have anything to do with education.

WARNING: Do not read if you have a low tolerance for anecdotal evidence!

I was on vacation in Colorado last week when I told someone I was from Texas. They couldn't believe that I didn't have a Texas accent.

That could be explained by the fact that most urban Texans have little or no accent. However, years earlier I took a dialect test that told me I spoke with a Northern dialect. (based on variations in words like "frying pan" vs. "skillet" or "firefly" vs. "lighting bug".)

This was puzzling, too. I was born and raised in Texas, and my parents were born and raised in Texas and Oklahoma, in semi-rural communities at that.

The only thing that I can think of that kept me from speaking with the local accent and dialect was that both my parents were well-educated. Even my mother had a college degree, which was pretty rare for a woman back in the late forties.

Also, all four of my grandparents had college degrees.

Could it be education? Maybe. It could also be that I watched too much TV and read too many books.

 

[aggle-rithm]

One of those guys from your class is one of our Senior VPs now.

Tell him for me, "Thanks a lot, jerk!"

He'll know what you mean.

 

[Justinian2]

I've also noticed that people seem to pass when they shouldn't. My degree course could have been something really valuable and worthwhile, but literally every student who wanted to come back and rack up another year of student loan debt was allowed to. I know of at least four people who graduated with me who failed every single year of the degree, yet somehow still magically passed. Given how much of our course was collaborative and practical, you can imagine how miserable it was when you got assigned to one of these lazy unmotivated ass-hats in your crucial final year projects!

Because the institution cared more about getting those dollars from the government than it did preserving any sort of educational integrity.

In fact, I was so disgusted by the course I didn't even attend my graduation, and have never taken my "piece of paper" out of its envelope. It's totally worthless.

Wow! That's too bad, so sad.

That's not exactly what I had in mind when I started this thread, but that tells a lot. I think some of the reason colleges were so good in the past is that they accepted only people that were motivated to learn.

I've notice that there is a category of posters on various forums, not this one of course, that don't really respect knowledge or want to learn. They don't think knowledge is important. If people like this graduate from college they are going to diminish the esteem and respect of all college graduates.

I believe that if you think knowledge is important, then you probably have acquired some. Conversely, if a person does not think knowledge is important, then he probably won't have any.

I was suspended for a week, so I couldn't post...

 

[Justinian2]

High schools need to teach basic skills rather than job related skills.

We need to teach people logic, math, English, reading, communication, understanding, government and how to learn.

I believe the basic and most fundamental stuff has been ignored.

You've heard of McMansions, eh? Those are cheaply built mansions.

I am proposing that McDegrees is the name to call modern degrees.

We are and are not that bad. I think people are learning. I just think that people don't know how to think.

Perhaps that's the way to express the problem.
People today have learned everything but how to think for themselves.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I've also noticed that people seem to pass when they shouldn't. My degree course could have been something really valuable and worthwhile, but literally every student who wanted to come back and rack up another year of student loan debt was allowed to. I know of at least four people who graduated with me who failed every single year of the degree, yet somehow still magically passed. Given how much of our course was collaborative and practical, you can imagine how miserable it was when you got assigned to one of these lazy unmotivated ass-hats in your crucial final year projects!

Because the institution cared more about getting those dollars from the government than it did preserving any sort of educational integrity.

In fact, I was so disgusted by the course I didn't even attend my graduation, and have never taken my "piece of paper" out of its envelope. It's totally worthless.

Have you considered what it is like for your tutors/teachers on a course like that? It's positively soul destroying passing students that you know won't be able to do a thing you have taught them in 2 weeks time, being made to graduate students you failed has to be even worse.

 

[Justinian2]

Freedom starts within.
Set youself free.
Then work to set others free.

Modern education enslaves a person.

You've got to get high marks to please everybody!
You've got to go to school every day.
You have to take the required curriculum.
You have to wear clothes to school.
You have to go to school.

etc, etc, etc

 

[Justinian2]

I hadn't even started in this thread before I was suspended on another thread and people lost interest in this thread while I was away.