The Death of Vince Foster - What Really Happened? (1995)

[BeAChooser]

When are you (and those others who use this "evidence" that shows Vince Foster was "murdered") going to use said "evidence" to bring his killers to justice?

Gee Redtail, one would think you'd be more concerned about a poster posting falsehoods.

Seems the posting of falsehoods by those challenging me on this thread doesn't bother you in the least.

That says volumes.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Because pointing out that Richard Scaife and his Arkansas Project promoting this CT as part of the Clinton Body Count CT, and dropping it the minute Bush was elected is very telling towards their motivations and is 100% true. Because pointing that your CT requires a conspiracy among numerous law enforcement agencies, including a federal prosecutor that went after Clinton for perjury leading to an impeachment is rather telling and 100% true.

I know that really you don't want those details coming out, because it shows this CT as what it is...a partisan CT from the 90s. It is the same as the birther nonsense today, but of course you wouldn't ever promote that debunked nonsense...would you?

 

[kookbreaker]

But you didn't challenge the assertions. All you did was make some dishonest statements regarding a few of the facts (as I proved) and totally ignore the vast majority of the incriminating facts. That's not challenging anything. That's hiding from the facts and acting like a 911Truther.

Except that when Bush was in office, I didn't let up on the demand that this be investigated and when it wasn't I warned that his not doing so would make him complicit in this coverup. That statement is one of the reasons I was thrown off Free Republic. That doesn't sound like a hyper-partisan. The partisans were the ones who elected to simply move on because they were afraid pursuing this would cause problems for Bush and his agenda.

Just because others let up does not mean that your antics are vindicated. Being kicked by the freepers does not impress me one bit. Given your present flirtations with the beyond laughable Birthers and your accusations that we are 'defending the democratic party' it is painfully, painfully obvious what your motivations are.

Like I've told you folks several times (don't you ever listen), you don't know what I've tried to do. And there is no sense in my claiming anything since it's totally unverifiable unless I give my name … and I don't intend to do that.

Then as far as we can see you have done nothing but post to message boards.

 

[kookbreaker]

Dig dig dig, Truther.

You're not very good at this, are you?

 

[MaGZ]

The story I heard was Vince Foster shot himself in the parking lot outside of the White House and Hillary had the body transported and placed in the park.

 

[BeAChooser]

Given your present flirtations with the beyond laughable Birthers and your accusations that we are 'defending the democratic party' it is painfully, painfully obvious what your motivations are.

What? I make one post starting a thread about what Birthers think, asking to hear what others think, and then I watch you all dance. That makes me a Birther? Notice that I didn't defend the allegation. Did you ever consider that I might be doing exactly what I said I was doing ... fact gathering? What's fascinating is that you folks are more than willing to deal in facts where the Birther claims are concerned, but not one of you apparently thinks you can defeat the Vince Foster allegations with the actual facts. So you ignore them, and some instances (as I've pointed out in this thread with regards to you) lie about them. And instead you try dishonest tactics like this. Like I said, fascinating.

 

[A'isha]

Hey, BAC...if you say you refuse to answer my question about what you've done and who you've contacted in order to see justice done in the Foster case because it would compromise your identity (in post 354), why, then, did you claim in post 345 that you had answered my question about it?

Which is it? Do you not want to tell us because it would involve revealing your real name, or did you already tell us and we're just ignoring it?

Please, help me unravel this conundrum!

 

[kookbreaker]

What? I make one post starting a thread

Somehow I am reminded of the joke about "But you **** one sheep!"

about what Birthers think, asking to hear what others think, and then I watch you all dance.

You posted an article by birthers, with the title 'Mystery of Barack Obama continues and declared the laughable article you link to be an 'interesting read;.

That makes me a Birther?

It means you are flirting them, and that it casts a great shadow over your ability to evaluate evidence.

Notice that I didn't defend the allegation.

Nor did you post anything whatsoever indicating that you disavow such nonsense.

 

[A'isha]

I'm sure BAC was "just asking questions" about the whole Birther thing.

Really.

 

[BeAChooser]

The story I heard was Vince Foster shot himself in the parking lot outside of the White House and Hillary had the body transported and placed in the park.

What's your purpose in throwing this tidbit ... unsourced with no facts to back it up ... into this thread?

Why don't we just deal with the actual facts?

Like the fact that Foster's secretary, Deborah Gorham, who was the last to see him alive, said he left his office in good spirits and not in anyway depressed. She said he told her "I'll be right back."

Like the fact that Deborah Gorham testified that there were two envelopes in the safe addressed to Janet Reno (head of the Department of Justice) and to William Kennedy III (Associate White House Council), that were never seen again after Patsy Thomason (Director of the White House Office of Administration), Craig Livingston (of Filegate fame, Director of the White House Office of Personnel Security), Margeret Williams (Hillary Clinton's chief of staff) and Bernard Nussbaum ( White House Council) visited Foster's Office the night he died … in violation of a Park Police order to seal the office.

Like the fact that the next day when asked about rumors of the safe opening, Mack McLarty (White House Chief of Staff) told reporters that Foster's office did not have a safe … which was proven to be totally untrue.

Like the fact that phone records proved that Hillary Clinton was on the phone with Williams just moments before Williams and the others entered Foster's office that evening. Like the fact that Hillary was again on the phone with Williams immediately after they left Foster's office.

Like the fact that Williams later admitted to Whitewater investigators that the first lady ordered her to take sensitive documents from Vince Fosters office after his death and store them in her bedroom closet for safekeeping.

Like the fact that Secret Service observed boxes being removed from Foster's office that night (despite the Park Police Order) and witnesses saw boxes marked "Foster" in the Clinton WhiteHouse residence later on.

Like the fact that a document connected to Whitewater, with Hillary's fingerprints on it, magically appeared in the Clinton's Whitehouse residence a few days after the statute of limitation on the Whitewater matter expired?

Just deal with the facts, MaGZ. They are incriminating enough.

 

[BeAChooser]

Birther

I'm asking you, Kookbreaker and everyone else to kindly stick to the OP topic. This thread is not about birthers ... or even about whatever comments I've made somewhere else about birthers. Nor, for that matter, is it about whether I've taken what I know about this case to authorities. It's about what really happened in the death of Vince Foster. Just the facts. So stick to the topic and stop posting off-topic ... or go away.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

BAC>

Nope, the issue is about motivations. You introduced into the debate when you started addressing the folks in the audience. You brought up the question about our motivations, and as such it is now legitimate to bring up both yours and those who created the Clinton Body Count CT (of course that would always be legitimate).

YOU, brought up and introduced the comparison of any who dares disagree with you to 9/11 truthers. We simply brought up the partisan motivations of the VF CT'ers and drew a legitimate line of comparison to the current partisan CT of the day.

 

[BeAChooser]

Nope, the issue is about motivations. You introduced into the debate

I didn't introduce the topic of motivations to this thread. You folks did when you questioned my motivations. My motivations have absolutely nothing to do with the validity of the facts cited in this thread. So I'm asking you, one last time, to stop talking about subjects other than the facts surrounding the death of Vince Foster. Stop talking about Birther nonsense. Stop talking about the Clinton Body Count nonsense. Stop talking about black helicopters and satanic kidnapping of children. Stop trying to link the Foster allegations to those things. Either address the facts in the Vince Foster case or go away. Quit trying to derail the thread.

YOU, brought up and introduced the comparison of any who dares disagree with you to 9/11 truthers when you accused me of being like one.

That is also untrue. As I already proved in an earlier post, I'm not the one who introduced the topic of 9/11 truthers to this thread. You folks did.

 

[A'isha]

I'm asking you, Kookbreaker and everyone else to kindly stick to the OP topic. This thread is not about birthers ... or even about whatever comments I've made somewhere else about birthers. Nor, for that matter, is it about whether I've taken what I know about this case to authorities. It's about what really happened in the death of Vince Foster. Just the facts. So stick to the topic and stop posting off-topic ... or go away.

I'd love to, BAC. But you keep pretending that the posts I've made about your "facts" don't actually exist, since you keep repeating the same points over and over like you never even read what I wrote (and, in some cases, never even read what you wrote).

If only I could draw some parallel with another group that promotes giant governmental conspiracies and who, no matter how many times their points are debunked, always return to post the exact same "theories" again and again, as if they aren't even reading the responses that dismantle their ideas.

Oh, well. Maybe something will come to me.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

BAC>

All I am asking is why did those who introduced the Clinton Body Count CT (of which the Vince Foster CT is a part) drop it the moment Bush won? I am asking why the founder of the Arkansas Project, which promoted this and other Clinton CT's, threw his support behind Hilary Clinton if he actually believed in the CT? I am asking you to give anything approaching an explanation for how a conspiracy so large could be kept under wraps even when some of the players involved went on to attack the President over perjury. I am asking you to actually look back to the earlier parts of this same thread, because the fact is you simply pretend your wall o' text hasn't been dealt with earlier.

If you have a problem with any of that BAC hit the little red exclamation mark in the corner and report me, but you are not a mod and you don't get to dictate the terms of the thread just because you cannot get around the big glaring contradictions of the CT you are promoting. Like any CT you can focus on the little anomalies all day long, but the whole thing falls apart when looking at the big picture.

 

[morgasm]

I've been catching up on this thread for the last week, so I guess I'm part of the "audience". I'll buy what Ken Starr, Clinton's nemesis, is selling. Foster offed himself. The idea that Starr sabotaged his own investigation to PROTECT Bill Clinton from criminal prosecution is absurd. The idea that Foster's wife was paid off by her own sister to keep quiet is absurd and reprehensible. But most insulting to my intelligence is the claim that opponents of a vestigial CT from the late 90's are somehow acting like truther. One cannot claim that Foster was killed because he knew evil secrets about the Waco massacre and that the entire US Government was complicit in the coverup without at least anknowledging the parallels between his/her own beliefs and those of the 9/11 truth freaks, let alone accuse dissenters of being troothers.

 

[BeAChooser]

I'll buy what Ken Starr, Clinton's nemesis, is selling. Foster offed himself. The idea that Starr sabotaged his own investigation to PROTECT Bill Clinton from criminal prosecution is absurd.

So that means you can explain why there is no debris on the passenger floor of the car in the picture from the Starr report showing the oven mitt in the glove compartment?

And you can explain why none of the eyewitnesses say they saw a hole in the back of Foster's head, which Starr's report indicates was huge, while many eyewitnesses said they saw a wound in Foster's neck ... which Starr's report denies existed?

And you can explain why they quote Lisa Foster in the report saying Foster was "Fighting Depression" when the hand written FBI notes from the night she was interviewed clearly indicates she said he was "Fighting Prescription"?

Just for starters ...

Or are you going to be like all the rest and simply call the allegation absurd without providing ANY direct challenge to the many verifiable, incriminating facts that have been offered here?

 

[BeAChooser]

For example, here's a video that was published on Obama's website during the election:

http://www.barackobamavideos.net/wh...cuments-linking-hillary-clinton-1-11-1996-flv

In that video, there's a clip from ABC News (at 2:14) of Hillary denying that there were any documents taken out of Foster's office the night he died and denying that she directed anyone to interfere in any investigation. But Barbara Walters doesn't appear to quite believe her. For good reason. There is sworn testimony (by Maggie Williams, Hillary's secretary at the time) that Hillary did indeed order her to remove documents from Foster's office. There is sworn testimony (by Secret Service agents) that they observed boxes being removed from the office. There is sworn testimony (by Foster's secretary) that documents that were in the safe disappeared after Foster's death. There is sworn testimony that Hillary herself ordered others to keep the so-called suicide note from authorities (and that Bill not even be told about it) after it was discovered. So she was just plain lying.

Do you want to know something else? It concerns Jerry Parks, who was head of security for Clinton during his 1992 Presidential campaign. Parks' wife, Lois Jane Parks, is on record saying that about a week before Foster died, she overheard a conversation between her husband and Vince Foster in which her husband said "You can't give Hillary those files, they've got my name all over them." She said that Parks carried out "assignments" for the Clintons and Vince Foster was the person who gave him instructions. His son Gary later told reporters that his dad said "I'm a dead man" when news of Foster's *suicide* broke. And curiously enough, Jerry Parks was shot and killed, gangland style, just 2 months after Foster died ... case still unsolved. When that happened, according to Lois Jane, their house was ransacked by the police and FBI, who confiscated files, records and over a hundred tapes of telephone conversations without giving them a receipt. Isn't that interesting?

Any of you *skeptics* want to discuss these facts (or any of the others I've cited), or do you want to go on just attacking the messenger with dishonesties and claiming it's all "absurd"?

 

[TSR]

Any of you *skeptics* want to discuss these facts (or any of the others I've cited), or do you want to go on just attacking the messenger with dishonesties and claiming it's all "absurd"?

.
The only fact I see in your post is that Barbara Walters interviewed Hillary Clinton -- and even then you cannot help but insert your own interpretation that Ms Walter's didn't quite believe Mrs. Clinton. Is this interpretation based on anything other than your desperate need that it be so? Did Ms. Walters *ever* go on the record supporting this?




No?





Then why should someone believe that the rest of your bald assertions of what this one or that one has said amount to "facts" rather than "what BAC thinks facts should be?"

IOW, cite the original documents so that a critical view can be taken of them, or admit that you cannot and go back to your hand waving and name calling. If you *really* want to discuss this, let's start from something other than "BAC really really wants to believe this."
.

 

[A'isha]

And you can explain why they quote Lisa Foster in the report saying Foster was "Fighting Depression" when the hand written FBI notes from the night she was interviewed clearly indicates she said he was "Fighting Prescription"?

I don't feel inclined to go back and reread both this and the other thread, but I know for a fact that this was discussed at length, BAC. Why are you back here posting the same insinuations about that, as if all our explanations just washed off you like water off a duck's back?

In that video, there's a clip from ABC News (at 2:14) of Hillary denying that there were any documents taken out of Foster's office the night he died and denying that she directed anyone to interfere in any investigation. But Barbara Walters doesn't appear to quite believe her. For good reason. There is sworn testimony (by Maggie Williams, Hillary's secretary at the time) that Hillary did indeed order her to remove documents from Foster's office. There is sworn testimony (by Secret Service agents) that they observed boxes being removed from the office. There is sworn testimony (by Foster's secretary) that documents that were in the safe disappeared after Foster's death. There is sworn testimony that Hillary herself ordered others to keep the so-called suicide note from authorities (and that Bill not even be told about it) after it was discovered. So she was just plain lying.

And? None of this means Foster was murdered. In fact, all of this stuff is still perfectly believable as true if Foster's death was a suicide exactly as Starr concluded. So why bring this up as if it proves anything about the circumstances of his death?

Do you want to know something else? It concerns Jerry Parks, who was head of security for Clinton during his 1992 Presidential campaign. Parks' wife, Lois Jane Parks, is on record saying that about a week before Foster died, she overheard a conversation between her husband and Vince Foster in which her husband said "You can't give Hillary those files, they've got my name all over them." She said that Parks carried out "assignments" for the Clintons and Vince Foster was the person who gave him instructions. His son Gary later told reporters that his dad said "I'm a dead man" when news of Foster's *suicide* broke. And curiously enough, Jerry Parks was shot and killed, gangland style, just 2 months after Foster died ... case still unsolved. When that happened, according to Lois Jane, their house was ransacked by the police and FBI, who confiscated files, records and over a hundred tapes of telephone conversations without giving them a receipt. Isn't that interesting?

ZOMG CLINTON DEATH LIST!!!!

(He's number 7)