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The biggest straw man

logger said:
So what is the difference? Need more specifics.
Venezuela has well regulated capitalism. Hell they even have oil, something those others don't have.
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You should ask yourself why Bolivia is thriving and Venezuela isn't: The difference is fiscal prudence
 
twinstead said:
You should ask yourself why Bolivia is thriving and Venezuela isn't: The difference is fiscal prudence
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Sure, I'd love to know!

What does fiscal prudence mean though? How does a socialist country be prudent with spending? It kinda goes against socialism.
 
Tony Stark said:
I don't decide, reality does. And reality says that lots of people in America die because they can't afford healthcare while other countries are able to eliminate that problem.
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See! that is an actual comparison. It is up to everyone else to decide if that is better or not.
 
logger said:
Sure, I'd love to know!

What does fiscal prudence mean though? How does a socialist country be prudent with spending? It kinda goes against socialism.
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One, they don't spend so much on the military. And two, they actually tax the wealthy more.
 
logger said:
Sure, I'd love to know!

What does fiscal prudence mean though? How does a socialist country be prudent with spending? It kinda goes against socialism.
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Venezuela nationalized private businesses, and the government was totalitarian, corrupt, and inept. That a bad combination for any political type.
 
logger said:
Its fascinating how well your country is doing, I hear it constantly from the left. When is someone going to do a comparison so the rest of the world can emulate it.
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Who woulda thunk that such comparisons actually exist?

Health care - US the worst in developed world

Life expectancy - US #31, behind every western euro country

Economic freedom - US #17, tied with Denmark

Academic achievement - US lags behind

Voter participation: U.S. trails most developed countries

You're welcome!
:th:
 
twinstead said:
Question:

Why does the Right insist on using the problems in Venezuela as an example of why those who want 'socialism' in the US are wrong.

When Norway or Denmark or (insert wealthy, successful Democratic Socialist country here) start having those issues then they will have a point; who in their right mind uses Venezuela as a shining example of 'socialism', and why do those on the right insist on this glaring straw man?
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Mmm, slight correction: Neither Norway nor Denmark is a socialist country.

Hans
 
Some people consider any economic system that doesn't involve actively yanking medicine out of the mouths of babies to be socialism.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Some people consider any economic system that doesn't involve actively yanking medicine out of the mouths of babies to be socialism.
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Exaxtly. According to the American definitions of left and socialism, which developed country besides the USA is not leftist and socialist?
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Yeah, some people don't understand the difference between a democratic socialist and a social democrat.
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In Norway, the social democrats have never held a majority in parliament. As I said previously in this thread, the PM and cabinet have been from the right around half the time since 1945. Most of the things that Americans point to to show Norway is a socialist country has broad support across the political spectrum.

As I also said previously, the current governing coalition is the most right wing we've ever had. If you come to Norway and try to tell us we're a socialist, or even social democratic, country, a lot of people will be confused.

Things like a welfare state, universal health care, regulations, etc, are usually not a right vs left issue in Europe. Socialist don't have a monopoly on these issues. I'm a big supporter of what we call the Nordic model, but I consider myself to be on the right and have never voted for any party on the left.

After all, the father of the modern welfare state in Europe was Otto von Bismarck, and I don't think any of his contemporaries would have ever dared call him a socialist to his face.

This has all to do with the American definition of socialism, which seems to be "whenever the government does anything, except for the military."
 
US-Led Economic War, Not Socialism, Is Tearing Venezuela Apart
Corruption is a big problem in Venezuela and many third-world countries. This was true prior to the Bolivarian process, as well as after Hugo Chavez launched his massive economic reforms...

Venezuelans told of how the privatizations mandated by the International Monetary Fund made life in Venezuela almost unlivable during the 1990s. Garbage wouldn’t be collected. Electricity would go off for weeks. Haido Ortega, a member of a local governing body in Venezuela, said: “Under previous governments we had to burn tires and go on strike just to get electricity, have the streets fixed, or get any investment.”
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Ryokan said:
Exaxtly. According to the American definitions of left and socialism, which developed country besides the USA is not leftist and socialist?
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that's actually a good question. Maybe the UK? Some of the Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia?
 
twinstead said:
that's actually a good question. Maybe the UK? Some of the Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia?
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The UK is a welfare state with universal health care.

As for Saudi Arabia and other Middle Easter states, perhaps, but I did say developed country. I didn't have countries like that in mind.
 
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