The biggest problem facing the "Truth Movement"

[Juustin]

So, this thought occurred to me recently. The biggest problem facing 9/11 CTs when compared even to any other CT, is purely the size and scope of the events that went down.

Take any other random CT, such as the JFK assassination. One death, a few bullets, all over in a matter of seconds. Even with any fringe theories amongst the CT crowd, the amount of data they're working with is so relatively small that it's easy for them to come together with a common delusion and stroke each others' egos.

Then, you take something like 9/11, with thousands of victims, in the towers, in planes, at the pentagon, 3 building collapses, 3 different states where the deaths happened, etc. Given the amount of (un)healthy imagination it takes to get a CT rolling, it's only natural that with something so big, there are simply a million ways to go with a CT, especially since you're not required to provide any real evidence.

Watching carefully, you can see the whole thing slowly cracking, as it only takes so long for each of them to realize that every other Truthers version of what happened doesn't coincide with their version. That seems to be where we're at now. It also seems that they're competing with each other, each making their own version more extreme, to try to make their own points not just against the official version, but against each others' versions. The upside of all of this is it makes any reasonably sane person realize even faster that most of them have long since lost their grip on reality.

 

[WildCat]

You just need to wake up and open your eyes Juustin!

 

[The Doc]

I agree.

Take one piece of their theory away from them and the whole thing falls apart. This is one of the main reasons that they never admit to being wrong, because if they admit to one thing being wrong, they admit to the rest of it being wrong.

ETA:
I can see their response to your post though lol...
"OOOOOOMMMMFFG!!! TEH BIGGER TEH LIE TEH MORE PEEPZ WILL BELIEVE IT!!!111!"
or
"THEY DID HEAPZ OF COMPLICATED STUFF SO LIKE YOU COULD USE THAT ARGUMENT AGAINST US"

 

[Mancman]

So, this thought occurred to me recently. The biggest problem facing 9/11 CTs when compared even to any other CT, is purely the size and scope of the events that went down.

Take any other random CT, such as the JFK assassination. One death, a few bullets, all over in a matter of seconds. Even with any fringe theories amongst the CT crowd, the amount of data they're working with is so relatively small that it's easy for them to come together with a common delusion and stroke each others' egos.

Then, you take something like 9/11, with thousands of victims, in the towers, in planes, at the pentagon, 3 building collapses, 3 different states where the deaths happened, etc. Given the amount of (un)healthy imagination it takes to get a CT rolling, it's only natural that with something so big, there are simply a million ways to go with a CT, especially since you're not required to provide any real evidence.

Watching carefully, you can see the whole thing slowly cracking, as it only takes so long for each of them to realize that every other Truthers version of what happened doesn't coincide with their version. That seems to be where we're at now. It also seems that they're competing with each other, each making their own version more extreme, to try to make their own points not just against the official version, but against each others' versions. The upside of all of this is it makes any reasonably sane person realize even faster that most of them have long since lost their grip on reality.

[truther]Dude! Compartmentalisation! Covert Op![/truther]

 

[AZCat]

This is, IMO, why many of them prefer to stay at the "Just Assking Questions" stage, because you can amass a lengthy list of "questions" on a luridly designed web page without any of them really contradicting each other. It's when you start forming actual theories about the events that discrepancies between the various factions begin to become more obvious. I am a lurker on a board with a fairly nutty 9/11 forum and the no-planers, CDers and DEWs are beginning to go for each others throats, despite repeated calls for civility. When a skeptic appears they all unite in response but when discussing their pet "evidence" it gets pretty nasty (the irony of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about charging another with the same transgression is lost on most of them). I give Jones/Wood credit for some of this, because they (as "experts") seem to have headed the movement towards actual theories rather than JAQing.

 

[Juustin]

Doc, you're exactly right, and I assume that would be the common defense against what I said. The beauty of the idea is, it really doesn't matter if they were to try to refute it or not. It requires no extra effort on the part of debunkers, except to keep pointing out obvious flaws in the various theories themselves.

Eventually, even if there are say, 5000 hardline 9/11 Truthers down the road, it's even less impressive when they're split into 10 groups of 50 each, with names like "The No Planers", "The Silent Explosives" and "The Star Wars Beams".

 

[chipmunk stew]

I think you have it all wrong, Juustin. What you call their "biggest problem" is actually their greatest strength. In the unforgettable words of LUCUS:

First of all SMART GUY...if we unite they will destroy us. THE REASON WE HAVE GOTTEN SO FAR IS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ORGANIZED.

 

[The Doc]

Doc, you're exactly right, and I assume that would be the common defense against what I said. The beauty of the idea is, it really doesn't matter if they were to try to refute it or not. It requires no extra effort on the part of debunkers, except to keep pointing out obvious flaws in the various theories themselves.

Exactly

Eventually, even if there are say, 5000 hardline 9/11 Truthers down the road, it's even less impressive when they're split into 10 groups of 50 each, with names like "The No Planers", "The Silent Explosives" and "The Star Wars Beams".

I prefer "Judy Wood Feat. James Fetzer and the Star Wars Beams"

 

[Juustin]

Thermitius Jones and the Cold Fusion Extravaganza?

 

[CHF]

Juustin,

the really funny part is that when you ask twoofers about the number of people involved in the execution/coverup of 9/11 they'll say "not many people would be needed."

Yet whenever any aspect of their theory is challenged they don't hestitate for a second to accuse hundreds/thousands of people of being involved!

"The FDNY was paid off" "The engineers are covering up the truth for fear of losing their jobs" "the demolition crews are being silenced" "Popular Mechanics is a government mouthpiece" etc etc.

Before you know it, they're up to a good thousand or so conspirators.....and you've barely scratched the surface of the logistics an inside job would have required.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Thermitius Jones and the Cold Fusion Extravaganza?

dont forget The Killtown Experience

Juustin,

the really funny part is that when you ask twoofers about the number of people involved in the execution/coverup of 9/11 they'll say "not many people would be needed."

Yet whenever any aspect of their theory is challenged they don't hestitate for a second to accuse hundreds/thousands of people of being involved!

"The FDNY was paid off" "The engineers are covering up the truth for fear of losing their jobs" "the demolition crews are being silenced" "Popular Mechanics is a government mouthpiece" etc etc.

Before you know it, they're up to a good thousand or so conspirators.....and you've barely scratched the surface of the logistics an inside job would have required.

the problem is they consider "paid off" "intimidated" or "afraid of losing job/looking foolish" as being perfectly natural responses for anyone whop have evidence about the murder of 3000 people, they arent part fo the conspiracy because they are just doing what the truthers would do in their situation (take the money and run)

 

[Juustin]

Actually, the "5000" number I used for the Truthers is actually the approximate number of living people who weren't involved, if you follow their logic.

 

[The Doc]

Actually, the "5000" number I used for the Truthers is actually the approximate number of living people who weren't involved, if you follow their logic.

Really? That many?

 

[Brainster]

The Deniers were willing to put aside their differences for awhile in order to grow the movement, but inevitably there comes a point where the fight over market share begins.

 

[Triterope]

Take one piece of their theory away from them and the whole thing falls apart. This is one of the main reasons that they never admit to being wrong, because if they admit to one thing being wrong, they admit to the rest of it being wrong.

Which also underscores that Twoofers are religious zealots, not rational people in an objective search for truth.

Rational investigators can acknowledge when a line of inquiry turns out to be untrue, irrelevant, or contrary to one's initial theories. Happens all the time in any real investigation. But no one in the Twoof movement has the wherewithal to say "the Chertoff surname thing is interesting, but it just doesn't appear to be true." Even though the Chertoff family tree is a fact that is easily confirmed/refuted. Even though 9/11 conspiracy theory could easily survive without this claim, and others like it (84%, Todd Beamer is still alive, "pull it", etc.)

The Twoofers' inability to let go of falsifiable facts proves that their movement is based on faith, not evidence.

 

[jhunter1163]

The Twoofers' inability to let go of falsifiable facts proves that their movement is based on faith, not evidence.

As I've said before elsewhere, the Twoofers can't let go of the minutiae because minutiae is all they have. To them, to concede any point, no matter how trivial, or to admit any flaw in their theory, is essentially to concede the whole construct is bogus. Much like a religion, I'd agree.

 

[chipmunk stew]

Juustin,

the really funny part is that when you ask twoofers about the number of people involved in the execution/coverup of 9/11 they'll say "not many people would be needed."

Yet whenever any aspect of their theory is challenged they don't hestitate for a second to accuse hundreds/thousands of people of being involved!

"The FDNY was paid off" "The engineers are covering up the truth for fear of losing their jobs" "the demolition crews are being silenced" "Popular Mechanics is a government mouthpiece" etc etc.

Before you know it, they're up to a good thousand or so conspirators.....and you've barely scratched the surface of the logistics an inside job would have required.

 

[Myriad]

[qimg]http://static.stripgenerator.com/generated/anonymous/strip/2007/05/17/pyramid-scheme.png[/qimg]

That is truly frightening.

No, not the size of the conspiracy.

The number of times you were willing to repeat the process of dragging a character to your strip, shrinking it to teeny tiny size, and putting it in position.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[chipmunk stew]

That is truly frightening.

No, not the size of the conspiracy.

The number of times you were willing to repeat the process of dragging a character to your strip, shrinking it to teeny tiny size, and putting it in position.

Respectfully,
Myriad

It wasn't nearly that tedious. I used several shortcuts.

Drag a bunch in. Resize them all together. Copy them over to the next pane. Copy several times back to the original pane. Voila!

 

[ktesibios]

Thermitius Jones and the Cold Fusion Extravaganza?

Eventually, even if there are say, 5000 hardline 9/11 Truthers down the road, it's even less impressive when they're split into 10 groups of 50 each, with names like "The No Planers", "The Silent Explosives" and "The Star Wars Beams".

[Dave Barry mode]

This thread contains several excellent names for rock bands.

[/Dave Barry mode]