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The Biden Presidency

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Fast Eddie B said:
Never underestimate the ability of Democrats to blow an opportunity.

That said, means testing does make some sense. Get the money to people who need it. That would allow the logic: not giving $1,400 to Jeff Bezos, et al, would permit us double the size of the payments to everyone earning under a certain threshold.

We live in retirement in a largely rural area where the cost of living is relatively modest. We did not need the stimulus payments and would not squawk if we were means tested out of future checks. Making the cutoff at $100,000/yr in income would keep the checks coming to us. But $100k annually in rural TN is very different from $100k in San Francisco or Manhattan.

Who the stimulus checks go to does make a difference in their desired stimulus effects. Probably most efficient is to folks who will spend the checks on goods and services. But even just putting it in the bank or using it to pay down debt or to buy stocks has some stimulating effect on the economy. Plus, in most states additional dollars spent means additional sales tax revenues for infrastructure spending and the like. Still, it would be hard to make the case that giving Jeff Bezos a stimulus check checks all the right boxes for what they’re supposed to be for.
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Sure, means testing makes sense as an idea, but almost always is a complete disaster in application.

The question becomes, is it worth delaying and complicating the stimulus in order to prevent it from going to people that don't need it, which will almost certainly accidentally deny relief to some people who absolutely need it? Or is it better to just go with a simple, fast solution that ensures every needy person gets relief?

If they want to figure out how to claw back this money from the wealthy after the fact, say by taxes, that's great. To be honest, taxing the wealthy right now, both to reverse Trump admin giveaways and to finance our emergency spending to meet the covid crisis, is a good idea generally. Trying to set up a complicated implementation carries too much downside at this critical moment.
 
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To poke at a couple things -

ICE Agents gave a choice: Accept deportation, or get locked up in COVID wing

The guard made the threat clear, Clovis Fozao, one of the detained men, told The Intercept: If the detained migrants didn’t submit, they would be transferred to Bravo-Alpha, the detention unit where Covid-19-positive detainees are held in quarantine.
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Also of some note from that little round-up link,

Cameroonians are fleeing especially grave violence, but ICE agents seem to be in a hurry to deport as many asylum-seekers as they can. Sadly, forcing them to agree to expulsion is nothing new to ICE. In fact, a flight was just cancelled by the new administration after detainees said they were forced to acquiesce through brutality. ICE, which has been denounced by Democrats as a “rogue agency,” still went ahead with other deportations--even after Biden ordered a 100-day moratorium. ICE rushed through a deportation flight to Haiti, including a deportee who wasn’t Haitian and had nothing to do with Haiti. The man is Paul Pierrilus, a financial consultant from New York state, and his congresswoman said his deportation was based on racism.
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Yeah, this is really not Biden's fault, but here's hoping that there's significant clean-up and accountability happening soon.

Elsewhere...

WaPo: Trump's Stolen Election Lies Have Cost Taxpayers More Than $500 Million and Counting
 
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trump-sell-us-secrets-highest-185304401.html

""I prefer to join in on the words of my Intelligence Committee chairman [Adam Schiff], there is no need — there's no circumstance where the former president should receive any intelligence, not now, or quite frankly, in the future," added the Democrat."

The article states that ex-presidents can request intelligence briefings. can anyone expand on that? Are ex-presidents actually given access to current intelligence or is this something that can very easily be denied?
 
RolandRat said:
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trump-sell-us-secrets-highest-185304401.html

""I prefer to join in on the words of my Intelligence Committee chairman [Adam Schiff], there is no need — there's no circumstance where the former president should receive any intelligence, not now, or quite frankly, in the future," added the Democrat."

The article states that ex-presidents can request intelligence briefings. can anyone expand on that? Are ex-presidents actually given access to current intelligence or is this something that can very easily be denied?
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Ex Presidents have a wealth of knowledge and experience dealing with nations abroad and were briefed not out of courtesy, but out of value for Presidents in power. They always could be denied the intelligence, but Trump is the first time as far as I know who is not considered trustworthy or of value.
 
RolandRat said:
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trump-sell-us-secrets-highest-185304401.html

""I prefer to join in on the words of my Intelligence Committee chairman [Adam Schiff], there is no need — there's no circumstance where the former president should receive any intelligence, not now, or quite frankly, in the future," added the Democrat."

The article states that ex-presidents can request intelligence briefings. can anyone expand on that? Are ex-presidents actually given access to current intelligence or is this something that can very easily be denied?
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They can, but it's at the discretion of the current president according to the WSJ.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
People haven't completed their 2020 taxes yet. Seems unlikely that the US government has this info on hand as of yet.
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Of course the government doesn't have our 2020 tax information yet. However, as we don't have a law ready yet, why do you assume any law would be finished and payments made before such info is known?

Edit: AOC seems to be under the impression that some proposals cite 2019 income

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1358214660634406912
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We'll, that's better than nothing, but that's not really evidence that this is a done deal or even likely.
 
wareyin said:
Of course the government doesn't have our 2020 tax information yet. However, as we don't have a law ready yet, why do you assume any law would be finished and payments made before such info is known?
.....
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Because the intent is to get a law passed way before April 15.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, means testing makes sense as an idea, but almost always is a complete disaster in application.

The question becomes, is it worth delaying and complicating the stimulus in order to prevent it from going to people that don't need it, which will almost certainly accidentally deny relief to some people who absolutely need it? Or is it better to just go with a simple, fast solution that ensures every needy person gets relief?

If they want to figure out how to claw back this money from the wealthy after the fact, say by taxes, that's great. To be honest, taxing the wealthy right now, both to reverse Trump admin giveaways and to finance our emergency spending to meet the covid crisis, is a good idea generally. Trying to set up a complicated implementation carries too much downside at this critical moment.
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(bolding mine)
Totally agree with this post.

About the bolded part, it has puzzled me from the beginning of this crisis that the US hasn't done that "clawing back" via taxes. Seems to be the easiest, most effective in the short term, and fairest way to do it (if needed).
 
Bob001 said:
Because the intent is to get a law passed way before April 15.
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Right. Not having it done before then would be a failure in itself. Its meant as relief, its probably extremely urgently needed by many people.
 
Delvo said:
Overall, the pattern with Biden so far is that he's doing fine on issues that look primarily aimed at boosting his own reputation with minimal immediate effect on Americans' lives (international relations, environmental policies, just generally acting like a grown-up and hiring grown-ups) but, on things that would improve Americans' lives (and thus bring in more votes next time), he (along with a lot of other Democrats) is still set just as solidly against us as he always has been before and kept telling us he still is throughout his campaign.
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Aw, grow up. Just because his policies don't match what you want doesn't mean he's "against" you. At Biden's level there are numerous considerations that we down here don't even know about but that doesn't mean they're not real.

Also, if you think campaign promises are cast in stone, then you need a complete political recalibration.
 
Bob001 said:
Because the intent is to get a law passed way before April 15.
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There's more to getting checks in people's hands than simply the date the law was/will be passed. The last check was mandated to be out within a 17 day window after the law was passed, and that one had thousands of people simply not getting the money due to errors. Thousands of households still don't have the money they're owed, and the only way they're fixing that now is as an extra amount for refund on taxes filed this year.

So, this year's tax refund is the solution for the last stimulus check, but not fast enough for the next stimulus check?
 
wareyin said:
There's more to getting checks in people's hands than simply the date the law was/will be passed. The last check was mandated to be out within a 17 day window after the law was passed, and that one had thousands of people simply not getting the money due to errors. Thousands of households still don't have the money they're owed, and the only way they're fixing that now is as an extra amount for refund on taxes filed this year.

So, this year's tax refund is the solution for the last stimulus check, but not fast enough for the next stimulus check?
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The people who didn't get their money on time last year were a tiny percentage of everybody who was entitled to it, and there were a number of specific reasons, including not providing bank information. That's a far cry from delaying payments for everybody until taxes are filed and processed.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
People haven't completed their 2020 taxes yet. Seems unlikely that the US government has this info on hand as of yet.

Edit: AOC seems to be under the impression that some proposals cite 2019 income

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1358214660634406912
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The previous stimulus payments were based on your most recent filed tax return.

Bob001 said:
Because the intent is to get a law passed way before April 15.
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April 15 is the deadline to file taxes, but people don't have to wait until then. I filed mine a few weeks ago.
 
Bob001 said:
The people who didn't get their money on time last year were a tiny percentage of everybody who was entitled to it, and there were a number of specific reasons, including not providing bank information. That's a far cry from delaying payments for everybody until taxes are filed and processed.
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As of last month, it could be up to 20 million Americans who wouldn't receive the recent $600 check until they filed their 2020 taxes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/06/tax-return-stimulus-check/

So, not a tiny percentage. And I for one would be shocked to see a bill passed and in effect and checks mailed/direct deposited in less than 2 months time given where Congress is at now on the matter.
 
wareyin said:
As of last month, it could be up to 20 million Americans who wouldn't receive the recent $600 check until they filed their 2020 taxes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/06/tax-return-stimulus-check/
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Not everyone gets a check. My first shot was direct deposit in my checking account. This time I got a VISA card with a $600 credit. I've tried to get cash from a couple of ATMs but the transactions have all been refused. :mad: Maybe I should go to a liquor store and try to buy $600 worth of booze. :p
 
SezMe said:
Not everyone gets a check. My first shot was direct deposit in my checking account. This time I got a VISA card with a $600 credit. I've tried to get cash from a couple of ATMs but the transactions have all been refused. :mad: Maybe I should go to a liquor store and try to buy $600 worth of booze. :p
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You might have luck going to a Walmart, or grocery store chain, buying something and hitting the cash back button.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Americans hate politics because they know that this hand-wringing about $2000 checks will drag on for weeks but later this year they’ll wake up to a headline about the $683 billion Defense budget passing 93-6 in the senate with zero debate preceding it, as if out of nowhere.
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https://twitter.com/edburmila/status/1358902921648349184
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I can certainly agree that most Americans only bother to pay attention to politics if it directly affects them, and not at all when it affects the actual country as a whole. As such, those people who choose to remain ignorant really will wake up to hearing about the budget being passed "as if out of nowhere."
 
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