Split Thread The Bermuda Triangle

[P.J. Denyer]

The Riddle of Flight 19 - Skeptoid

The 1945 disappearance of five fighter planes in the Bermuda Triangle was real, but hardly how it's portrayed.

skeptoid.com

The guy's name was Charles Berlitz, and he published a book in 1974 called The Bermuda Triangle. He's the one who started all the buzz, and it was to sell his book.

Edward Van Winkle Jones' article in the Miami Herald was in 1950 and George X. Sand's one in Fate Magazine that defined the 'Triangle' was 1952, there were several articles about it through the sixties too keeping the story alive (and sometimes expanding on it) and a previous book in 1969 that got a reprint in 74.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Edward Van Winkle Jones' article in the Miami Herald was in 1950 and George X. Sand's one in Fate Magazine that defined the 'Triangle' was 1952, there were several articles about it through the sixties too keeping the story alive (and sometimes expanding on it) and a previous book in 1969 that got a reprint in 74.

Thanks for the article. I had not seen the full analysis.

To quote Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92): "A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on."

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Thanks for the article. I had not seen the full analysis.

To quote Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92): "A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on."

I think you quoted the wrong post...

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Incidentally, Sand's 1952 Fate magazine article was the first to cite Flight 19 as victims of the Triangle although obviously without the additional radio messages that Berlitz would make up two decades later.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I think you quoted the wrong post...

It took Brian Dunning until 2014 to get his boots on.

 

[alfaniner]

I don't think Close Encounters of the Third Kind helped any with debunking the stories. (Not that it should have, in any way.) I just saw a father and son reaction video. and the kid was asking if the Bermuda Triangle was real. Not to mention, the "UFOlogist" J. Allen Hynek made a cameo in it. (I think he's the one who came up with the numbered "Kind" terms).

 

[Thermal]

Thanks for the article. I had not seen the full analysis.

To quote Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92): "A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on."

Chuck said it was a common expression at the time, so he shouldn't get much credit.

Plus I think it is wrong- an exciting story will travel fast, and a boring one will have the meticulous footwear donning delay. Whether the bull ◊◊◊◊ is more intriguing than the truth is up to those repeating it.

 

[Chanakya]

The Riddle of Flight 19 - Skeptoid

The 1945 disappearance of five fighter planes in the Bermuda Triangle was real, but hardly how it's portrayed.

skeptoid.com

The guy's name was Charles Berlitz, and he published a book in 1974 called The Bermuda Triangle. He's the one who started all the buzz, and it was to sell his book.

Thanks, enjoyed reading that. Absolutely, that ties it all up completely. Those planes, general chatter, then the Van Winkle guy ups the interest with his article, some more of the same, then Berlitz cashes in and sends it all viral.

 

[Chanakya]

Loch Ness sightings should come with a (TM) registered to the tourist board.

As in, it was deliberately hyped up by those profiting from tourists, the hotels maybe, or maybe the tourism department there itself? They've done a great job of it, if so!

 

[Darat]

As in, it was deliberately hyped up by those profiting from tourists, the hotels maybe, or maybe the tourism department there itself? They've done a great job of it, if so!

Yep.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Chuck said it was a common expression at the time, so he shouldn't get much credit.

Plus I think it is wrong- an exciting story will travel fast, and a boring one will have the meticulous footwear donning delay. Whether the bull ◊◊◊◊ is more intriguing than the truth is up to those repeating it.

Does not truth count? Whether a story is boring or exciting has nothing to do with its veracity.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Does not truth count? Whether a story is boring or exciting has nothing to do with its veracity.

Thermal isn't talking about veracity but distribution.

 

[theprestige]

Does not truth count? Whether a story is boring or exciting has nothing to do with its veracity.

Yes, we've seen many a nonsense thread started on this very basis. This is no mystery to you.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Yes, we've seen many a nonsense thread started on this very basis. This is no mystery to you.

Ah. I see a problem here. You think I believe in nonsense. My posts are always generated by a sense of skepticism. I look for informed responses and informed discussion.

 

[Thermal]

Does not truth count? Whether a story is boring or exciting has nothing to do with its veracity.

Agreed, it's all about the big T, baby. What I'm saying is that I think the quote you pulled misses the mark, popular though it is. Something being true or false doesn't affect its travel speed. It's how titillating it is that gets the RPMs up, although it's true to say a lie is more likely to be fabricated to be more titillating by nature.

In the spirit of the Bermuda Triangle, it's kinda cool that we are going on an inception level derail though. Also, this very split tread doesn't appear on my watched page, which makes me conclude there are sinister forces at work in the ISF. Shall we make some bank off that assertion? It's the American way.

 

[Thermal]

There were a number of incidents in an area where such incidents were likely to occur and which were therefore unremarkable. Confirmation bias and ignorance did the rest.

I'd add that in the 1970s, otherworldly themes were culturally in vogue. UFOs, psychics, astrology, and the like were hip themes for a pre-primed and receptive audience.

 

[Pixel42]

What I'm saying is that I think the quote you pulled misses the mark, popular though it is. Something being true or false doesn't affect its travel speed. It's how titillating it is that gets the RPMs up, although it's true to say a lie is more likely to be fabricated to be more titillating by nature.

I've always interpreted the saying more as a recognition that the truth about any event or situation tends to be a lot more complicated than most people are prepared to acknowledge. The lie that spreads quickly tends to be simple and easy to understand; the truth spreads more slowly because it is usually a lot ... messier.

 

[Thermal]

I've always interpreted the saying more as a recognition that the truth about any event or situation tends to be a lot more complicated than most people are prepared to acknowledge. The lie that spreads quickly tends to be simple and easy to understand; the truth spreads more slowly because it is usually a lot ... messier.

I get that, but I think of a lie as having a deliberate intent to deceive. What you describe is oversimplification, or maybe dumbing down till the point is lost.

 

[Chanakya]

My two cents, for what it is worth:

Sure, truth can be messier than falsehood. On the other hand, sometimes lies can be much messier, as well. I mean, what can be weirder, or messier, than all of the angels-on-pins theology, which is no more than a bunch of nonsensical falsehoods? The endless twists and turns believers knot themselves up into to defend the weird Trinity idea, or to explain the presence of evil in a world created by a tri-omni God? The truth is so much simpler than that, that there's no God, and people are what they are.

As skeptics, shouldn't we first see if it's even true, that aphorism about truth and "lies", before trying to explain the why of it? Heh, much like the Bermuda Triangle thingy?

Might it be that we are so outraged --- so rightly outraged, so perfectly justifiably outraged --- when falsehoods are believed and not the truth, that we tend to overgeneralize and end up thinking, despondently, or cynically and laughingly, and for no good reason, that falsehoods generally end up getting far more traction than truth?

Sure, lots of people believe lots of lies. But, on the other hand, lots of people believe lots of things that are perfectly true, as well. Which is the more? I don't know! Nor do I know how one might decide that, one way or the other. My gut feeling is that truths-people-believe probably outnumber lies-people-believe, and decisively so.

When we see a lie that has gained traction, then we hold that up as proof that lies gain traction faster. That's some kind of fallacy there, surely? What's it, the Texas Sharpshooter? We tend to forget all those other instances when lies were quashed immediately, or when they got some traction but were soon outrun by truth.

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Heh, no, not suggesting for a minute that I'm fine with all the lies we live with. Certainly it's far too many, and we should do what we can to eliminate them. Just, that aphorism, it's probably no more than just a witticism, that just seems wise without necessarily being that at all.

 

[catsmate]

You have to feel for the author of "The West Barking Gyratory Mystery Exposed"

OT but I have notes somewhere for an RPG scenario based around mysterious happenings involving the Hanger Lane gyratory, as people and vehicles drop through cracks in space-time....
It explains the loss of time experienced while traversing the gyratory.