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The behaviour of US police officers

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Is anything going to happen to them?

I don't really get bent out of shape when I step on ants in the parking lot, and these pigs have no reason to care that they traumatized some vulnerable old woman. They have power and she doesn't, sucks for her, lets all laugh.

Nothing bad will happen to them, why should they give a ***** ?

Right now one is suspended and one is on desk duty. But they are still getting their paychecks. I can't imagine the department is all that thrilled with them given there's a good chance the city will lose millions in a lawsuit.
 
It appears that a large part of police training and behavior is rooted in a Supreme Court decision that requires police conduct to be judged in light of what a "reasonable police officer" would do.
But he also wrote that reasonableness is difficult to describe, noting that “the ‘reasonableness’ of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/how-courts-judge-police-use-force/594832/

Question: Suppose the standard was changed to what a "reasonable person" would do? When would it be reasonable for a person other than a police officer to shoot somebody just because they're scared?
 
It appears that a large part of police training and behavior is rooted in a Supreme Court decision that requires police conduct to be judged in light of what a "reasonable police officer" would do.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/how-courts-judge-police-use-force/594832/

Question: Suppose the standard was changed to what a "reasonable person" would do? When would it be reasonable for a person other than a police officer to shoot somebody just because they're scared?

I'd suggest a "reasonable professional".

I think the intent of the wording in the case is to hold an officer to a higher standard, but it has been bastardized through years of training officers that it is reasonable to shoot first and think later.
 
I suggest "reasonable" be redefined legally to mean, and stay with me here because this is where it gets complicated, "reasonable" and not "I've made up an insane scenario in my head where the wheelchair bound Thalidomide baby might overpower me, so I... *dramatic pause* FEARED FOR MY LIFE so I shot him in the back 29 times, set his corpse on fire, and sewed salt into the Earth where he died."
 
Right now one is suspended and one is on desk duty. But they are still getting their paychecks. I can't imagine the department is all that thrilled with them given there's a good chance the city will lose millions in a lawsuit.

Please the money will come from the city not the department.
 
I suggest "reasonable" be redefined legally to mean, and stay with me here because this is where it gets complicated, "reasonable" and not "I've made up an insane scenario in my head where the wheelchair bound Thalidomide baby might overpower me, so I... *dramatic pause* FEARED FOR MY LIFE so I shot him in the back 29 times, set his corpse on fire, and sewed salt into the Earth where he died."

They can sew salt? :p
 
There was a USA statistic saying that 30% of people shot by cops die. Maybe that's a low percentage when they are specially trained to aim for center mass and neutralize the threat.
 
:confused:

I said, "the city will lose millions". I referred to department as that is where their disciplinary action would come from. You know, chain of command and all that.

I think that was the point which was trying to be made.

The department won't suffer, because the money will come from the city. So there is no reason for the department to change its ways, habits, or policies.

The department's budget is rarely threatened because politicians, especially local ones, aren't going to put themselves in a position where they can be characterized by opponents as being unwilling to support the police, and being 'soft on crime'.

I know you've seen the pushback on the suggestions of "defunding the police", even considering how badly the idea has been distorted and mischaracterized.
 
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I think that was the point which was trying to be made.

The department won't suffer, because the money will come from the city. So there is no reason for the department to change its ways, habits, or policies.

The department's budget is rarely threatened because politicians, especially local ones, aren't going to put themselves in a position where they can be characterized by opponents as being unwilling to support the police, and being 'soft on crime'.

I know you've seen the pushback on the suggestions of "defunding the police", even considering how badly the idea has been distorted and mischaracterized.

Well that's just stupid if that is the point. You don't think the mayor leans on the police chief or if not directly certainly the police chief would know the city managers weren't going to be happy campers.

It's not like any police department is an agency independent of city admin. And it's not like the mayor is going to write up a disciplinary note for a police officer's file.
 
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Well that's just stupid if that is the point. You don't think the mayor leans on the police chief or if not directly certainly the police chief would know the city managers weren't going to be happy campers.

It's not like any police department is an agency independent of city admin. And it's not like the mayor is going to write up a disciplinary note for a police officer's file.

They are just totally outside of its actual control. Why should the cops care if the city loses a few million? It doesn't effect them.
 
The family of Andrew Brown Jr, who was shot dead by police in North Carolina, have seen a short, redacted version of the bodycam video and describe the shooting as an execution.

Brown was shot through the back of the head while in his car. The family claims he was attempting to drive away from police with both hands on the wheel when they opened fire through the back of the vehicle, killing him on the spot.

The city has preemptively declared a state of emergency, but bodycam footage has yet to be released to the public.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/andrew-brown-jr-body-camera-family_n_608747bde4b0ee126f6af484

Given the police are fighting tooth and nail to prevent the release of the full, unredacted video, it's pretty safe to assume the footage is damning.
 
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NY Detectives Endowment Association puts out obviously fake video they claim shows an assault on a uniformed police officer. The video is quite clearly staged.

https://twitter.com/NYCPDDEA/status/1386812200774508547

You may remember the Endowment Association from their press release claiming that police officers were deliberately targeted for poisoning via milkshake, which turned out to also be totally bogus.

Police union putting out copaganda in an attempt to drum up conflict. What a healthy, societally useful organization.
 
To poke at something in just slightly a different direction...

US police killings of Black Americans amount to crimes against humanity, international inquiry finds

In a devastating report running to 188 pages, human rights experts from 11 countries hold the US accountable for what they say is a long history of violations of international law that rise in some cases to the level of crimes against humanity.

They point to what they call “police murders” as well as “severe deprivation of physical liberty, torture, persecution and other inhuman acts” as systematic attacks on the Black community that meet the definition of such crimes.

They also call on the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague to open an immediate investigation with a view to prosecutions.

“This finding of crimes against humanity was not given lightly, we included it with a very clear mind,” Hina Jilani, one of the 12 commissioners who led the inquiry, told the Guardian. “We examined all the facts and concluded that that there are situations in the US that beg the urgent scrutiny of the ICC.”

Among its other findings, the commission accuses the US of:

- violating its international human rights obligations, both in terms of laws governing policing and in the practices of law enforcement officers, including traffic stops targeting Black people and race-based stop and frisk;

- tolerating an “alarming national pattern of disproportionate use of deadly force not only by firearms but also by Tasers” against Black people;

- operating a “culture of impunity” in which police officers are rarely held accountable while their homicidal actions are dismissed as those of just “a few bad apples”.
 
Shot ten times and 'not life threatening'? well, that's OK then.


It's like the time one of Pat Robertson's cohosts on "The 700 Club" claimed that you can kill someone with a single well-placed blow from a baton, so the fact that the police hit Rodney King so many times proved that they weren't seriously trying to hurt him.
If he had wanted to kill him, he could have done it with one bullet. Ten bullets means he was deliberately just wounding him.
 
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