The Behavior Of US Police Officers - Part 3

[Shadowdweller]

He could have not shot her
How difficult would it be to disarm someone carrying a baby?
Didn't he have a baton, razer or pepper spray?

Yes, he could totally have acted against any sort of human surprise or survival instinct and any sort of police training the world over and just calmly let her stab him to death. Or stab the child she was holding to death, being so very clearly in her right mind with such clearly and obviously discernable motivations

Contrary to surprisingly widespread delusion it is not actually reasonably possible to consistently disarm an adult, knife-wielding assailant when ALREADY within stabbing range without sustaining life-threatening injury. Barring the use of specialized protective gear that police officers do not regularly walk around in.

And finally...funnily enough...neither batons, tasers, nor pepper spray are actually instant off switches.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Don't talk rubbish. Police elsewhere in the world are trained to deal with knives without shooting people.

A police office shouldn't be relying on surprise and survival instinct, he's supposed to be trained to deal with high stress and life threatening situations.
As for protective gear, stab vests are, and have been standard issue for most police forces for decades.

 

[Darat]

Yes, he could totally have acted against any sort of human surprise or survival instinct and any sort of police training the world over and just calmly let her stab him to death.
Or stab the child she was holding to death, being so very clearly in her right mind with such clearly and obviously discernable motivations

Contrary to surprisingly widespread delusion it is not actually reasonably possible to consistently disarm an adult, knife-wielding assailant when ALREADY within stabbing range without sustaining life-threatening injury. Barring the use of specialized protective gear that police officers do not regularly walk around in.

And finally...funnily enough...neither batons, tasers, nor pepper spray are actually instant off switches.

Which would still have been one less person dead.

"Had to kill the kid to stop the mother killing the kid" is not a good excuse.

 

[plague311]

"Had to kill the kid to stop the mother killing the kid" is not a good excuse.

That's the thought going through my mind when I read it too. "We had to kill the baby to make absolutely sure that it wasn't the mother who killed the baby. Another job well done."

 

[Shadowdweller]

Don't talk rubbish. Police elsewhere in the world are trained to deal with knives without shooting people.

Using riot shields and heavy protective vests, while surrounding the assailant, isolating them from potential victims, and maintaining safe distance until the individual can be hemmed in by shields or (slowly) disabled at range with non-lethal means.

None of which was present nor is possible when the assailant starts at stabbing distance.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Which would still have been one less person dead.

"Had to kill the kid to stop the mother killing the kid" is not a good excuse.

Bah no one cares about a little collateral damage.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Which would still have been one less person dead.

"Had to kill the kid to stop the mother killing the kid" is not a good excuse.

Sure, presuming that the oh-so-rational woman would have politely put down the knife after murdering her child directly in front of armed police officers.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

People armed with knives are dealt with by the police without being shot. People armed with knives are dealt with without their babies being shot.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Maybe they should have shot the baby and not her, that would have been more in line with the previous story reported here.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Maybe they should have shot the baby and not her, that would have been more in line with the previous story reported here.

At least we can be certain no police officer would or should risk their life for a baby.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

People armed with knives are dealt with by the police without being shot. People armed with knives are dealt with without their babies being shot.

Look in an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mirror, kid. People holding babies don't regularly launch surprise attacks on other individuals. Both police and non-police regularly die or suffer catastrophic injury when surprised at close range by knife attacks.

 

[ponderingturtle]

If someone has a knife you have to nuke the site from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

 

[Shadowdweller]

It is intensely regrettable and damaging to US society that it is impossible to have any sort of substantive national discussion about actual criminal justice reform in the country because of all the delusional mouth-frothing and political posturing.

 

[plague311]

It is intensely regrettable and damaging to US society that it is impossible to have any sort of progressive national discussion about actual criminal justice reform in the country because of all the delusional mouth-frothing and political posturing.

Maybe it's because a large portion of the population is sick of hearing every excuse in the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ book when cops drop bodies. You think that might have something to do with it? We see other countries without nearly the body count and we seem to get frustrated. Now you're here ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ chastising everyone cause we aren't patting these cops on the back? Seriously "kid", since you like to use that term, maybe after seeing the cops shoot 9 times at a subway fare jumper and causing collateral damage (and hundreds of similar cases every year) we aren't interested in the excuses anymore.

You can get butthurt all you want, talk down to others and tell us we're the problem with even having a discussion about ◊◊◊◊ like this, but let me be honest, pal. We've been having this discussion since I came here over a decade ago and exactly ◊◊◊◊ all has changed.

Don't worry, your little police officers won't get in any trouble and they'll be high-fiving each other for killing this woman while standing around the water cooler by this afternoon.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It is intensely regrettable and damaging to US society that it is impossible to have any sort of substantive national discussion about actual criminal justice reform in the country because of all the delusional mouth-frothing and political posturing.

Look just because you think killing babies is better than an injured police officer why shy away from your position?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Look in an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mirror, kid. People holding babies don't regularly launch surprise attacks on other individuals. Both police and non-police regularly die or suffer catastrophic injury when surprised at close range by knife attacks.

A trained police officer should have been prepared to deal with it. it's literally their ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ job!

 

[Donal]

Yes, he could totally have acted against any sort of human surprise or survival instinct and any sort of police training the world over

Allegedly, they are trained to remain calm in the face of such situations. That's why we give them guns and authroity to use them

and just calmly let her stab him to death.

I'm pretty sure ther eis a middle ground between "let her stab him to death" and "Execute her and 2-month-old baby"

Or stab the child she was holding to death, being so very clearly in her right mind with such clearly and obviously discernable motivations

If only there was a professional tasked with handling those situations to minimize the harm present.

Contrary to surprisingly widespread delusion it is not actually reasonably possible to consistently disarm an adult, knife-wielding assailant when ALREADY within stabbing range without sustaining life-threatening injury.

Huh, sounds like something you should be aware of before taking the job.

Barring the use of specialized protective gear that police officers do not regularly walk around in.

Or actuall ytraining police officers to handle these situations. Or addressing mental health issues without sending armed state enforcers.

And finally...funnily enough...neither batons, tasers, nor pepper spray are actually instant off switches.

especially in the hands of some middle aged high school quarterback trying to relive his glory days.

 

[Darat]

Using riot shields and heavy protective vests, while surrounding the assailant, isolating them from potential victims, and maintaining safe distance until the individual can be hemmed in by shields or (slowly) disabled at range with non-lethal means.

None of which was present nor is possible when the assailant starts at stabbing distance.

Nope. That would be a bad way to train your officers.

 

[Donal]

Look in an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mirror, kid. People holding babies don't regularly launch surprise attacks on other individuals. Both police and non-police regularly die or suffer catastrophic injury when surprised at close range by knife attacks.

How are the cops going to get surprise attacked during a domestic disturbance call? They are trianed to assume the purpetrator and victim might turn on them.

 

[Darat]

Sure, presuming that the oh-so-rational woman would have politely put down the knife after murdering her child directly in front of armed police officers.

Nope but as she had the knife in the baby they could have grabbed her knife arm. Granted the baby would more than likely still have been killed but the mother would still be alive so one less dead plus they police officer wouldn't have to live the rest of their life knowing they'd killed a baby. Win, win as they say.