The Antikythera Device

JoeTheJuggler

Penultimate Amazing
JoeTheJuggler
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I just saw the NOVA episode about the Antikythera Device.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/ancient-computer.html

First, how is it that I never heard of this thing before?

Second, isn't it way much more cool than the Erich Van Daniken nonsense where ancient people were ignoramuses completely lacking in genius and skills? (Well, because it's real, and all the ancient ET silliness isn't.)

I especially love the bit where the guy making a reconstruction of the device shows exactly how to make a 53 tooth gear. When he finishes, he says that it would have taken his Hellenistic counterpart about 20 minutes to make that gear.

Note also that this device would have really messed up Van Daniken's notions since it's a relatively high tech machine capable of predicting a great many astronomical events, but it depicts everything using a geocentric model of the universe. Presumably, ETs would have known better.

ETA: If this is a better fit for the Science & Technology subforum, I'm happy to have it moved.
 
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Over the years, there has been much discussion of this on the graham Hancock message boards, and I just did a search, but unsuccessfully. There were quite a few useful, logical comments too! I'm pretty sure it was on the 'Mysteries' board.
 
Did you see the NOVA episode? I wonder how much of that info is new? (It's all new to me, since I'd never run across this thing before.)

It was also lovely irony that custom-made extremely high-tech machines were brought to Athens to do different kinds of imaging of the device. (One x-ray-based machine that reconstructs a high resolution 3D image of the innards, and another photography gizmo that assembles a highly accurate image of the surfaces to aid in reading the Greek letters and symbols on the dial.)
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Did you see the NOVA episode? I wonder how much of that info is new? (It's all new to me, since I'd never run across this thing before.)

It was also lovely irony that custom-made extremely high-tech machines were brought to Athens to do different kinds of imaging of the device. (One x-ray-based machine that reconstructs a high resolution 3D image of the innards, and another photography gizmo that assembles a highly accurate image of the surfaces to aid in reading the Greek letters and symbols on the dial.)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I have not seen the Nova episode. Sounds good. I will watch it later. It seems to me I remember someone actually constructed one a while back.
 
It's a cool device. And it leads to some interesting questions about how far the Greeks got in terms of technology (and how far they could have gotten!).

I know that at least one replica has been constructed, using tools they had available at the time. Those people weren't morons; they were every bit as smart as us, in fact. It's facinating to see how that intelligence opperated in such an alien culture!
 
That was a pretty amazing, especially the part about the pin in the gear that allowed for the elliptical orbit of the moon speeding up and slowing down. Amazing piece of engineering for the time.
 
I think I saw the same show on the BBC last year.

Yes, it's surprising that it's not better known than it is. On the other hand, as I recall, it's only recently that scans have revealed the mechanism in 3D, allowing a proper reconsruction of its full function.
 
bob_kark said:
That was a pretty amazing, especially the part about the pin in the gear that allowed for the elliptical orbit of the moon speeding up and slowing down. Amazing piece of engineering for the time.
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And the thing also tracked the rotation of the moon's elliptical orbit itself.

But as someone in that NOVA episode pointed out, watching the sky was the TV of ancient times.

Apparently it could predict lunar eclipses and even tell whether the moon would be black or red during the eclipse and which direction the shadow would cross.
 
As I recall, the Hellenistic Greeks also had a steam impulse engine with which to move statues around. It makes me wonder is the institution of slavery kept them from exploiting this technology or if they simply lacked an energy source.

ETA: Here is one of many sites dealing with this device.
 
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I saw it in Athens a few years back. Mind blowing to think of it's age and complexity. Our forbears were far more advanced technologically than most give credit. If I recall correctly there is evidence in the literature of similar devices, though this is the only example we've found today.
 
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JoeTheJuggler said:
Note also that this device would have really messed up Van Daniken's notions since it's a relatively high tech machine capable of predicting a great many astronomical events, but it depicts everything using a geocentric model of the universe.
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Sigh. Someone explained that away by telling the me stargate key has to be relative to the planet the gate is on. You can't win.
 
TimCallahan said:
As I recall, the Hellenistic Greeks also had a steam impulse engine with which to move statues around. It makes me wonder is the institution of slavery kept them from exploiting this technology or if they simply lacked an energy source.

ETA: Here is one of many sites dealing with this device.
Click to expand...
That's a nice one too. Unfortunately, Heron's device has only been used as a toy as far as we know. There's also Archimedes' nifty use of the humble block and tackle to lift Roman galleys out of the water during the siege of Syracuse.

I think you have a good point about slavery: labor was simply too cheap in the Greek (and Roman) world for such inventions to be put to economic use. You can only imagine what they else would have accomplished technology-wise.

ETA: too bad I can't view the PBS program here...
 
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Sooner or later someone will produce a set of patterns for 3-D printers to use.

Fred
 
BenBurch said:
Do we have a full design for the device that could be modeled?
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IIRC, it's not complete. I think it's got something like 25-30 gears, but people suspect there might have been more like 40-50 gears. Still, many of its functions have been reproduced in the reconstruction mentioned. This was based on a digital model of the parts gleaned from the CT-type of scan done on it.

ETA: Here's a short bit about the reproduction on a youtube video. This is the same one that was shown on NOVA.

 
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bob_kark said:
That was a pretty amazing, especially the part about the pin in the gear that allowed for the elliptical orbit of the moon speeding up and slowing down. Amazing piece of engineering for the time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought that was pretty clever. I wonder how much trial and error it took to stumble onto it.

Steve S
 
The sad thing is that this device is far more impressive and interesting than anything the 'Ancient Astronaut' crowd have ever come up with. It's a fascinating example of the intelligence and ingenuity of our ancestors that demonstrates just how advanced their knowledge of Maths, Astronomy and Engineering were. And the Woosters want to ignore it in favour of nonsense about aliens. I feel sorry for them.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
IIRC, it's not complete. I think it's got something like 25-30 gears, but people suspect there might have been more like 40-50 gears. Still, many of its functions have been reproduced in the reconstruction mentioned. This was based on a digital model of the parts gleaned from the CT-type of scan done on it.

ETA: Here's a short bit about the reproduction on a youtube video. This is the same one that was shown on NOVA.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that link (it's only about ~4 mins). I knew of the device several years ago, but not what it was designed to do. It's great to see a physical reproduction working and get a basic explanation. An incredible bit of mechanical engineering.
 
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