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Tesla Model X - Electric Vehicle

A better comparison would be driving regular car when Oil light is flashing.Ignore it and you will stuff up your car.

Forum on Tesla site discuses this in detail.

Sounds like battery doesn`t discharge much when left unplugged, more a problem caused when driving till charge is Zero (Apparantly several warnings given before this can happen.

With any luck battery technology will continue to progress.Some major companies working on a Lithium Air battery (10 X more charge than a Lithium Ion Battery).Interested to see how things progress.
 
Top Gear tested the Volt and basically said it was not worth it. It went half of the range it was stated (due to interstate driving speeds) and then required 11 hours of charging, if you did the fast charge you risked halving the battery lifespan .Not to mention how terrible cadmium mining is to the environment.

I don't think this is going to catch on until they make sme drastic improvements to the batteries. They need to be able to travel 300+ miles at hwy speeds and be recharged in an hr or so. Until that happens, they seem to be strictly commuter city cars IMO.
 
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A better comparison would be driving regular car when Oil light is flashing.Ignore it and you will stuff up your car.

Forum on Tesla site discuses this in detail.

Sounds like battery doesn`t discharge much when left unplugged, more a problem caused when driving till charge is Zero (Apparantly several warnings given before this can happen.

With any luck battery technology will continue to progress.Some major companies working on a Lithium Air battery (10 X more charge than a Lithium Ion Battery).Interested to see how things progress.

That's interesting, to be sure. It wouldn't stop me from purchasing a Tesla knowing about the issue, but it is odd that Tesla wouldn't warn people about the dangers of leaving it unplugged for so long.
 
Top Gear tested the Volt and basically said it was not worth it. It went half of the range it was stated (due to interstate driving speeds) and then required 11 hours of charging, if you did the fast charge you risked halving the battery lifespan .Not to mention how terrible cadmium mining is to the environment.

I don't think this is going to catch on until they make sme drastic improvements to the batteries. They need to be able to travel 300+ miles at hwy speeds and be recharged in an hr or so. Until that happens, they seem to be strictly commuter city cars IMO.

That 300 miles and charge in an hour is a long way off, especially if you think of many electric cars pulling up to a station off the highway and wanting to pull a lot of power at once from the grid.

You can only think of such a scenario right now with swappable batteries.
 
You can only think of such a scenario right now with swappable batteries.

Indeed. Which brings up another problem in turn. If those batteries are really "dead forever" once their charge reaches 0% (or very close to that), you have the problem of being able to recharge the old ones in a given timeframe. If the problem is with the grid not being able to handle many people wanting to charge themselves, then you also have a problem to do the same with the old batteries.

So you would need to store them for some time, and spread out the charging process. Now if enough people use electric cars, that in turn means you have a huge amount of replaced batteries to charge. For now it may not matter much, and the replaceable battery concept will work, since there are only very few such cars in use. But if that number goes up a lot, you are basically back to square one.

After all, you _must_ recharge them to have enough full ones in stock. You may delay the time at which you recharge by having lots and lots of charged spare batteries in stock, but you still need to recharge the depleted ones.

Then, if you want to use a slow charging process (that is, recharging takes longer than discharging, on average), you need a lot of extra stock again, because all the cars deplete the batteries faster than you can recharge them anyways.

Then there is the problem that virtually all rechargeables suffer from self-discharge to some extent. So you can't just recharge them on put them on the shelf indefinitely. You have to constantly top-up the charged ones. Which in turn makes the stored energy more expensive the longer the battery sits there and is topped up.

The whole thing gets even more expensive if the electricity production itself is switched to renewables as well, to make it "completely green". Because then you need to use storage systems, which by themselves make the resulting energy output more expensive (buy energy to fill the storage, account for losses, reconvert it to electricity, again with losses, plus the cost of operating the storage).

So, unless we get a really dramatic improvement in battery life and quality, plus a big improvement in mileage for all-electric cars, the whole thing will be just something that is feasible for short distances/city-hopping.

Greetings,

Chris

ETA: Not to mention the problem of quality-control and -ensurance that comes with a swappable battery system. You have to trust the "gas" station that the batteries you get are OK, that they are cared for properly, etc. Unless you want to have them recharged at the manufacturers place to get that level of confidence. But then you need to move around a lot of those batteries, which are quite heavy too, causing lots of extra traffic.
 
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So what you are left with is not unlike the propane exchange cages at gas stations. Hoping that whomever filled yours did it properly. (or perhaps having some sort of gauging/light system that ensures a proper recharge)

IMO, hydrogen is the future. The infrastructure is going to be a bear, but I think it's eventually the best way to go.
 
Price is normally the blocker then but even that is getting better: $50k (approx £35k) is cheaper than many of the 'higher end' cars. Still way too expensive for me but definitely moving in the right direction and mass production could slash that.
Mass production can't cut costs when the driver of high costs is the raw materials, and that is definitely the case with electric car batteries.

This is a $15,000 car with a $35,000 battery pack.
 
So what you are left with is not unlike the propane exchange cages at gas stations. Hoping that whomever filled yours did it properly. (or perhaps having some sort of gauging/light system that ensures a proper recharge)

IMO, hydrogen is the future. The infrastructure is going to be a bear, but I think it's eventually the best way to go.

The problem is you need electricity (from power stations) to produce the hydrogen, a hugely inefficient process. Way more efficient to charge a battery.

Hydrogen is a good energy dense fuel once produced, maybe it could be used as a by product of excess off peak electricity produced in power stations ?
 
Battery powered vehicles may work in smaller countries and in urban areas. But the USA is a big country and things are spread out. cars that need to be charged for hours and hours to go 100 miles or less are not going to be bought here. They will fail. (not to mention that most of them are very pricey for a short range commuter vehicle)

If hydrogen isn't the answer... well, they better get to work on improving battery tech.
 
If hydrogen isn't the answer... well, they better get to work on improving battery tech.



I'm thinking a hybrid battery and fuel cell system. Use the battery for day-to-day driving, but have an easily-refueled fuel cell available for longer-range driving.

The key is making fuel cells cheap enough so you can afford one you only use on an occasional basis.
 
So what you are left with is not unlike the propane exchange cages at gas stations. Hoping that whomever filled yours did it properly. (or perhaps having some sort of gauging/light system that ensures a proper recharge)

Not sure about that. For example, over here the people refilling propane bottles are forced to have the bottles inspected on a rather regular basis for leakages, safety, etc. Then, after refilled you can simply weigh the bottle to check if it is filled as expected. Sure, that won't tell you much about the quality of the gas inside, but still. And if it is bad, the worst that would happen is that some grill or heater won't function properly. Then you simply return it and get another one elsewhere. We have lots of places where you can get them, so there is pretty much always a place nearby to get a fresh one.

With batteries things are a bit different, since they are way more complex. They age, some technologies are prone to the memory effect, you have no easy way to determine the real capacity of the battery, etc. And if it fails, you may be stuck in the middle of nowhere. Again, might not be a big problem today, since only a few cars run on batteries. But those are problems that need to be solved before such cars can gain a wide acceptance.

Then there is the current problem that high-energy-density batteries can pose some risk as well. I guess you too heard the stories about high capacity batteries in phones and laptops going up in flames. A single, very small failure can have huge consequences, considering the current technology. So you are either going to use lower capacity batteries, which are more safe, or you go for high capacity/high current batteries that have increased risks.

Finally you have the problem of the materials used in modern batteries. Lot's of nasty chemicals used, little is known about recycling the batteries in a meaningful way. Production of those modern cells isn't the cleanest thing either, all things considered.

I'd say they have a long, long way to go until battery technology becomes usable enough for use in electric cars on a large scale. All that even without considering the implications for the power grid when it comes to recharging and a lot of people want to recharge.

Funny thing is, over here they propose the idea of using electric cars as part of the storage system for renewables as well. Pretty stupid idea, if you ask me. Batteries are expensive, and they don't really last long. So you want to use them only when really needed for the purpose you have them, in this case driving the car. Plus, what good is an electric car when it is unpredictable if the battery is charged fully or not, because it had to feed energy into the grid when used a storage?

Greetings,

Chris
 
Battery powered vehicles may work in smaller countries and in urban areas.
And there's a big problem with using them in urban areas - most urban residents don't have a garage and have to park on the street, often a block or more from their house. How will they charge their batteries?
 
And there's a big problem with using them in urban areas - most urban residents don't have a garage and have to park on the street, often a block or more from their house. How will they charge their batteries?

I didn't really express that very well. I doubt many actual city dwellers would need one due to the public transit and the fact that they don't drive very much.
I was referring more to the under 30 mile suburban commuter who uses the car to drive to the urban areas. I would assume that most of the cars no could handle a commute into town and back without needing a charge until they got home eh?
 
Nice! That car has an amazing design. I heard that Elon Musk just became a billionaire, because of Tesla Motors.
 

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