Input Requested Terms and conditions for the International Skeptics Forum

[geni]

So if you want your old info subject to the old T&C, and don't like the new T&C...then just don't register in the new forum, or make posts there.

Hobson's choice is not I feel a good way of dealing with existing communities.

 

[Lolly]

I really don't understand what major crisis it is that you are trying to manufacture here.

I gave feedback, as requested. I have manufactured nothing, merely tried to point out that the forum owners need to properly consider the ramifications of what it is they think they are doing, and what they are really doing.

Stop trying to explain and justify the indefensible. It's ridiculous.

They MUST get permission BEFORE they transfer any content and mix it up with content to which they will have different rights.

A PERSON is not required to infringe copyright, every time they copy it to a different server they'll be breaching it.

I don't need to explain it to anybody, they should get better legal advice as to the nature of the agreement.

 

[Darat]

But that is not how this is intended to happen.

Yes it is.

The new forum is taking all content from this forum.

In a sense yes - it is taking the structure, graphics and so on all of which are copyright the JREF - and the JREF is (I believe) assigning that copyright to the new organization that will own the new forum. The JREF will also be publishing the content it has a licence to on the new forum.

When you don't register at the new forum, does the existing content that is now published on the new forum get deleted?

No. The private information you have supplied to the JREF - First name, last name, country and state if in the USA and your email address will not be copied over to the new forum unless you agree to the new terms and conditions.

Otherwise, how will the forum owners know the content over which they have no rights? Especially in time, after the forum has been running for a while, are they going to check the publication date (is there one?

Date.

avatars are not dated, they just change) of any photo they want to take, adapt and use as their own or are they just going to go ahead and make use of content to which they have no copyright? How are they going to differentiate between content to which they have full copyright rights and those to which they don't?

Date.

The usual position is that you get permission, and then you deal with it. Here, they are talking about getting permission AFTER they have already acquired it. What do they intend doing with the moved content when permission is not given? (bear in mind that this includes content of users who are not active on the forum).

Nope, the JREF is merely using the "permission" you have already given it.

(This topic by the way is not the topic of this thread - you should take these concerns to the future of the forum thread as they are about the process not the actual T&Cs.)

 

[Darat]

Are you seriously expecting the new forum owners in 2, or 3 or however-many years to check the post date of anything they might want to reproduce?

Yes. Any organisation would do, dealing with content rights is an every day thing, and in this case it is very straight forward because it is a simple check with the date.

That's the issue. It's all very well announcing who owns what, but to ensure that they do not mistakenly infringe others' rights requires the new owners to check everything they intend to deal with for post date, or some means of separating data to which they have additional rights. All I'm asking is how they intend to do that?

By checking the date stamp on whatever content they wish to use.

 

[Darat]

I gave feedback, as requested. I have manufactured nothing, merely tried to point out that the forum owners need to properly consider the ramifications of what it is they think they are doing, and what they are really doing.

They have done.

...snip...

They MUST get permission BEFORE they transfer any content and mix it up with content to which they will have different rights.

They have done or rather they have provided a publishing platform for the organisation you have already given your permission to.

... By posting on the Forum a Member grants the JREF a non-exclusive licence to publish, republish or reproduce their work, in its entirety or as the JREF sees fit, in perpetuity ....​

A PERSON is not required to infringe copyright, every time they copy it to a different server they'll be breaching it.

I have no idea what you mean.

I don't need to explain it to anybody, they should get better legal advice as to the nature of the agreement.

I you aren't willing to explain your concerns in more detail than there is nothing else for me to respond to as the concerns you seem to have been expressing have already been considered and dealt with in an appropriate (i.e. legal) manner.

 

[Lolly]

because it is a simple check with the date.

No, it isn't. Jref has a licence to publish. Copyright is with the author.

Jref can publish on the new server pursuant to its rights.

The new owners have NO RIGHT to publish without consent. Jref can't give it, and if the author does not agree with the T&C and does not register, they haven't given it.

The day the new forum owners publish any content from any author on THIS forum from somebody who does not register on the new forum, it'll be in breach of copyright. It isn't as simple as "checking dates".

 

[newyorkguy]

Goodbye JREF, it's been real!

 

[icerat]

Goodbye JREF, it's been real!

just fyi, the downtime about to happen is just for a server move, it will still be the JREF forum for at least a few more days (or even weeks)

 

[jsfisher]

Can you post the new IP address in the seconds that remain?

 

[icerat]

should be 162.243.32.156

 

[OCaptain]

The International Skeptics Forum totally copied the JREF forum!

And pasted!! ;-)

 

[MuDPhuD]

We have crossed over to other side!,?.

 

[Klimax]

No, it isn't. Jref has a licence to publish. Copyright is with the author.

Jref can publish on the new server pursuant to its rights.

The new owners have NO RIGHT to publish without consent. Jref can't give it, and if the author does not agree with the T&C and does not register, they haven't given it.

The day the new forum owners publish any content from any author on THIS forum from somebody who does not register on the new forum, it'll be in breach of copyright. It isn't as simple as "checking dates".

Those who are not registered will be marked as such. (Like guests aka unregistered already are)

And thus last remaining (remotely) valid point is dealt with, because rest was already fully answered. Those who didn't gave permission won't be published anywhere else then forum itself.

And that's all.

 

[Darat]

...snip... Jref has a licence to publish. Copyright is with the author.

That is correct.

Jref can publish on the new server pursuant to its rights.

That's correct.

The new owners have NO RIGHT to publish without consent.

That's correct.

Jref can't give it,

That's correct.

and if the author does not agree with the T&C and does not register, they haven't given it.

This is the part you've got confused about.

The JREF is republishing the content it has a licence to (that's the licence you and all the rest of us have agreed to grant the JREF) on the new forum. The JREF is not trying to nor wants to assign its licence to the new forum owners.

The day the new forum owners publish any content from any author on THIS forum from somebody who does not register on the new forum, it'll be in breach of copyright. It isn't as simple as "checking dates".

This is why I use the book analogy. The JREF does not have a printing press so if it wanted to (as it has a licence to do) to publish the contents of the JREF Forum in book form it would use a publisher to print and distribute that book. Think of the new forum being the book publisher - it does not get any rights to the content the JREF provides for republishing.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Good-O. All the new admins will be trained in use of the database and will do a query before they deal with any information.

Good-O.

Sound like an enormous pain in the neck, but if you say so....

Do you imagine that re-licensing is going to be a full time job for the admin team? What are you thinking? I'm sure this forum isn't flooded with requests to sub license posts. The future owners of the forum are likely to need to worry about transferring the license approximately one half time. Either once or not at all.

 

[calebprime]

I think it was on this thread -- not sure -- that people have been talking about clicking on some consent button at the bottom of some page.

Which page was that?

I didn't see that button on the bottom of the ISF Draft Terms etc. pdf.

Is there anything else I need to do to stay on the new forum other than show up?

 

[Darat]

I think it was on this thread -- not sure -- that people have been talking about clicking on some consent button at the bottom of some page.

Which page was that?

I didn't see that button on the bottom of the ISF Draft Terms etc. pdf.

Is there anything else I need to do to stay on the new forum other than show up?

Nothing to do at all at the moment - it will only be once the ownership of the forum has been transferred that you will have to agree to the new T&Cs.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I don't think you're going to need to do that until forum ownership changes.

Ninja'd

 

[calebprime]

cool.

 

[Lolly]

it does not get any rights to the content the JREF provides for republishing.

AND the minute the new owners publish it they breach copyright. "They won't be published anywhere else than forum itself" is nonsense.

PUBLICATION ON A FORUM BY ANYONE OTHER THAN THE JREF IS A BREACH OF COPYRIGHT. PUBLICATION ON THE FORUM ITSELF IS A BREACH OF COPYRIGHT.

You can't mark people as "guests" or "unregistered" to something they never joined, and have never visited and which is breaching their copyright by re-publishing content without any right to do so. You can't mark them as anything at all.

WHO EXACTLY ARE THE NEW OWNERS? Not some corporation name, who is actually doing this?