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Telephone telepathy

thaiboxerken said:
Your attacks on Randi and the JREF are rather pathetic.
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Ahh, more consicely put than I. I wasted several rounds with this nonsense.

I should have just said that.:D
 
Ahh, more consicely put than I. I wasted several rounds with this nonsense.
I should have just said that.
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As he could not answer to my arguments without offending me, i have to classify him at least equally pathetic, also. About you, you might be pathetic as well, as you just spit that my arguments are weak and my logic is flawed.

I could have come over here and say: "Hey you, bunch of pathetic and blind skeptic puppets, you are all pathetic!" But i did not, that would be disrespectfull , but as you are draggin me down to your level of idiocy, you might well beat me by experience.

There are only two or three people over here who are discussing, such as loki, ashles and Ian.
 
See if he can support this one statement.
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Ok , i will waste my time again. Skepticism has its own business , yes it does.

Any skeptic benefits from the profits of his books as well as any paranormal do, and they use media, which is a comercial medium, in order to spread out this philosophy. Are you just saying that no skeptic sells skepticism? I can´t believe it.

The worst thing about skepticism business is WHO gives them plenty of support. The traditional medicine industry which harvest for billions on drugs, for instance, is the best ally of skepticism applied to medicine. These allies gives each other the strength to survive. They do not do any efforts to study or finance any study on alternative medicine such as the one conducted in Maryland, about distant healing. Very few do. Very few. They cannot finance their own doom, why would they spend money and efforts in studies that would ruin their current state of economic domination? Such great labs and enterprises put their faith and support on the skeptics, who are the ones that deals better with public masses, in order to "show" people how bunk alternative medicine is. And they are failing more and more as time passes and many successful experiments are being ignored in this field. The easily debunkable and flawed ones are the preffered targets of skepticism. Alternative medicine is being absorbed by traditional practiotioneers all over the world. And it seems to work, it seems to works a lot. Be it via placebo, or any other unknown phenomenon to the eyes of western science, I , myself was benefit from it, and cannot explain why, it is mysterious up till now. I personally think that the best known media skeptics knows the truth abnout alternative medicine but are too attached to some lobbies in order to surpass them and be honest in their rebutal. If i´m wrong, let me know!!

And science as a whole, traditional science, the best and most rich labs and enterprises in the world all benefit from the materialistic philosophy of life. They sell materialism, most people in the world are believers, but the elite of sicence is not, for a reason of pure dogma and intelectual orintation and imposing. No "fringe" or controvertial scientist will be admitted by a great materialist enterprise and lab such as Lockheed Martin, perhaps only if this scientist forget about his own conjectures and just work there as an average materialistically oriented one. For a reason they are loobists, they are in a sittuation that they are not abandoning easily, so they put their efforts in order to hold back any menace to their rich and intelectual status. I´m not giving names here, i am saying that it is about skepticism in general.

Well, i don´t know why i am wasting my time with this , because you seem not be willing to believe it. Every link that i put here which is well argumented and explain better than me about this entire discussion, is rebuted instantly as woo woo and pathetic without any plausible argumentation!! I don´t know if you are one of them, but they are here. Dogmas my friend, closed mind, and even idiocy sometimes. No one seem to argument about the links which i put here to support my point of view. Not my fault.
 
omegablue said:
Are you just saying that no skeptic sells skepticism?
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So... let me get this straight...

Excessive greed can be bad.
A person who sells something can be greedy.
A skeptic makes money -> all skeptics sell skepticism
All skeptics are bad. Q.E.D.

You are truly a paragon of logical thinking, omegablue.
 
Ah you are abusing on my poor english skills. :(

I didnt say that EVERY skeptic person, which may include you, SELLS skepticism, nor every BELIEVER sells PARANORMAL.

I argumented that Skepticism has its own business and it does have. Would you care providing me with information which would make me think on contrary?

Excessive greed can be bad
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Bad or Good are not possible things to be discussed using your suggested logical scheme. So you are utter and completely unhappy on your made up post. The other logical arguments you said i stated, are just your apparently nonsensical ASSumption about what i am exactly trying to say.

-Skepticism has its own business.
-Many well known skeptics sells their skepticism.
-Many skeptics do not sell skepticism but are deeply influenced by the ones who does.
-So, Skeptic business do influence many skeptics who does not sell skepticism.
 
Any skeptic benefits from the profits of his books as well as any paranormal do, and they use media, which is a comercial medium, in order to spread out this philosophy. Are you just saying that no skeptic sells skepticism? I can´t believe it.
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Hmm sorry, i´ve spotted my error. The above should be understood as:

Any skeptic who benefits from the profits of his books do it as well as any paranormal who do sells theirs also do. And they use media, which is a comercial medium, in order to spread out this philosophy. Are you just saying that no skeptic sells skepticism? I can´t believe it.

My bad, sorry, i will not edit the original post, i stand corrected.
 
omegablue said:
Ah you are abusing on my poor english skills. :(

I didnt say that EVERY skeptic person, which may include you, SELLS skepticism, nor every BELIEVER sells PARANORMAL.

I argumented that Skepticism has its own business and it does have. Would you care providing me with information which would make me think on contrary?

Bad or Good are not possible things to be discussed using your suggested logical scheme. So you are utter and completely unhappy on your made up post. The other logical arguments you said i stated, are just your apparently nonsensical ASSumption about what i am exactly trying to say.

-Skepticism has its own business.
-Many well known skeptics sells their skepticism.
-Many skeptics do not sell skepticism but are deeply influenced by the ones who does.
-So, Skeptic business do influence many skeptics who does not sell skepticism.
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I was abusing your flawed logic, not your language. Stop crying martyr.

You've managed to produce an argument that is slightly more internally consistent than the previous one. I'm not really sure what "selling skepticism" means exactly, but you started off by asking me to provide evidence that an abstract group (as far as I can tell) is a business or has a business. Is JREF a business? Legally, no. Do I have audit information for JREF hadny to prove they aren't making a profit? No. Then again, I'm not the one accusing them of a crime.
 
I said nothing about JREF specifically, so you are just assuming that. I dont know what JREF is internally. Nor you, as you stated.

I already told you what is "selling skepticism", why didnt understand? Their books is the way they sell skepticism directly, as any paranormal author does. They also appear on TV "selling" their philosophy to the public, like many paranormalist do. And media-skeptics´s allies, such as those i cited above, benefits greatly from their busines´s results. In other words, media skepticism is about holding a view of the world that copes with these powerful corporation´s business like i mentioned. Lobby is the name of the thing. It is just a matter of who´s with who. And indeed they are powerful , inteligent and rich allies.

Another thing. This discussion is hardly successful if we try to extensively apply boolean logic to. This seems to me ,shifting goalspots.
 
omegablue said:
As he could not answer to my arguments without offending me, i have to classify him at least equally pathetic, also.
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Style over substance. You seem to place your thoughts with those who you think are an authority. This is why you simply post links and don't tend to have an original thought of your own. I supposed your entire ammunition supply comes from anti-randi sites. Maybe someday you'll have scientific evidence to support your beliefs in psychic nonsense and the like, as for today.. you have NOTHING.
 
Omega. Can you give examples of skeptics who are profitting from selling skeptic propoganda? If you can, can you show me that it's a majority phenomena among skeptics?

I have yet to make any money from selling skeptic propoganda. Although, being a skeptic has saved me from throwing my money away to scammers a few times.
 
omegablue said:
Are you a skeptic? DO you think these theories are b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t? And how can i know that you really understand it and did not googled it quickly and pasted it here? You know, i´m just being sceptical... :D
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I have a large collection of Jung books in my library, dating back to my early college days when I studied his writings religiously. Like many skeptics, I had a period in my life when I embraced the gee-whiz wonder of pseudoscience such as this.

I understand Jung's theories perfectly well....they are crap, for the most part. Neither Jung nor his contemporaries had the slightest idea how the human brain worked, and they did not want to know. Because of this chasm of ignorance, he was able to come up with just about anything to fill the void, as long as it made sense to him. He was also able to get lots of people to believe him. However, now that we have the tools and the answers that Jung lacked, we can drop his vast canon of speculation and wishful thinking and learn how the mind really works.
 
omegablue said:
I said nothing about JREF specifically, so you are just assuming that.
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Right. Skepticism is an abstract ideal that individuals and organizations are sometimes identified with. It is not a physical entity, so how can I talk about it having a business? JREF is at least a legal organization. Since you are on the JREF board, I used it as an example. I can talk about it in concrete terms. Is it a business? No. It is legally not allowed to be one. You might object to that, but then we'd be having a real conversation. As it stands now, your point is not cogent enough for me to have a conversation.

Communism is an idea. The Communist Part USA is an organization. Are the members of the CPUSA real communists? What is communism? Irony aside, f I came on this board talking about "communists selling their communism," I would sound like a wack job and the conversation would go nowhere.
 
omegablue said:
Ok , i will waste my time again. Skepticism has its own business , yes it does.

Any skeptic benefits from the profits of his books as well as any paranormal do, and they use media, which is a comercial medium, in order to spread out this philosophy. Are you just saying that no skeptic sells skepticism? I can´t believe it.
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I will bet you 100 imaginary dollars that the ratio of books promoting quackery or paranormal ideas to skeptical ones is at least 5 to 1. Try to name 5 skeptic authors who are household names. On the other hand, there is Deepak Chopra, Uri Geller, John Edward, Sylvia Browne, Allison Dubois; all of whom have been on national television here in Canada. Not to mention any number of televangelists. (Benny Hill, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker). These people made tens of thousands of dollars, perhaps even hundreds of thousands. Of course any field of interest can sell SOME books. That doesn't mean there is anything near an equal comparison there. You haven't supported your statement. Only speculated.

The worst thing about skepticism business is WHO gives them plenty of support. The traditional medicine industry which harvest for billions on drugs, for instance, is the best ally of skepticism applied to medicine.
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Skepticism applied to medecine means that the industry must labour hard to produce drugs that actually work. If anything, skepticism is a pain in their fiscal butt.
more stuff you completely made up
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Well, i don´t know why i am wasting my time with this , because you seem not be willing to believe it. Every link that i put here which is well argumented and explain better than me about this entire discussion, is rebuted instantly as woo woo and pathetic without any plausible argumentation!!
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Duh. Every link you have posted here is from skepticalinvestigations, which we have pointed out is a very dubious and unreliable source. Find corroborating evidence, and then we can discuss the merit of their claims.

Edited to fix ratio order, and then added names...err
 
Style over substance. You seem to place your thoughts with those who you think are an authority. This is why you simply post links and don't tend to have an original thought of your own. I supposed your entire ammunition supply comes from anti-randi sites. Maybe someday you'll have scientific evidence to support your beliefs in psychic nonsense and the like, as for today.. you have NOTHING.
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People who I do quote here is at least equally or more well versed on what they study than the average skeptic that cares to debunk them. My posts have more about my own oppinion than plain links. I post the links her just to show that i´m not alone in this line of thinking. And i´m not saying that they are correct, i am just saying that they have many points that deserves some elucidation from those people being charged by them. Many times, charged skeptics won´t respond to them at all, and this is what catches my attention to. I tend to search for what is between the lines, what is controvertial , i am not a pro-psychism activist, I may say. I just measure both side´s arguments using my critical thinking, and honestly, i currently think that sketics leaves a little to be desired. I´m not sure about the existance of psi-power, but when it comes to think about collective unconsciousness, i think it is not impossible to be true, it´s a plausible idea and its being demonstrated on many experiments, many of them ignored and attacked with ad hoc by materialists. So, i´m curious about this kind of thing. I feel that there are many things to be explained, studied and answered before we can say that this (collective unconsciousness) is bunk.


Maybe someday you'll have scientific evidence to support your beliefs in psychic nonsense and the like, as for today.. you have NOTHING.
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Again you are ASSuming that i am the full fledged pro-psychic activist. As for scientifical evidences, there is a lot. But they are either:

- Proved fake, due to charlatanism, lying , data selecting, statistical incompetence, cheating and etc etc.

- Positive towards "paranormal" but ignored and attacked by ad hoc.

- Replicated using biased tools to approach results to chance level. Like the one on Sheldrake´s "sense of beeing stared at" . Which was far too favorable, but when CSICOP applied some distracting tools on the subjects , they acquired results on the level of chance. Any knowledge about the premise of the sense of being tared at, would have kept the skeptics from applying such nonsensical tools. Either they are ignorant about they are testing or they are simulating a faqlse understanding to fill their agenda. Another example being the recently CSICOP "test" on Natasha, about her diagnosing unknown power. Far too biased. Even with the crappy and tiring conditions of the girl, he did well , and diagnosed 4 ou of 7. And i don´t know why the heck CSICOP thought that she would pass only by having 5 out of 7. I read both accounts, and found the skeptics wanting.

This is my current oppinion, i´m currently skeptic on the skeptics. It can easily changed, specially because i had been for many years a complete materialistic skeptic.
 
Omega. Can you give examples of skeptics who are profitting from selling skeptic propoganda? If you can, can you show me that it's a majority phenomena among skeptics?
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I´m, wondering if this misunderstandig is due to the fact that english is not my primary language. Let me state something again:

I DIDNT SAY THAT EVERY SKEPTIC LITERALLY SELLS SKEPTICISM, I SAID SOME OF THEM , THE MOST INFLUENT AND FAMOUS DO. OK? i SAID SKEPTICISM HAS IT´S OWN BUSINESS AND I DONT KNOW WHY THE HELL YOU GUYS KEEP SAYING AS IF I STATED THAT EVERY SKEPTIC IS FRAUDULENT, AND A BUSINESSMAN.

So , if the above is not enough, i say again, i am not comparing if the majority do sell or not. I´m saying that SKEPTICISM HAS IT´S OWN BUSINESS.


I have yet to make any money from selling skeptic propoganda. Although, being a skeptic has saved me from throwing my money away to scammers a few times.
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Me too.


I´ll take a break now, play some counter strike source, and i´ll respond to the other points later on. ;)
 
omegablue said:
Another example being the recently CSICOP "test" on Natasha, about her diagnosing unknown power. Far too biased.
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Absolutely correct - biased towards effective, clever testing procedures and analysis. Honestly, if you think that was a biased test, I wonder about your sanity. Or at least your reading comprehension skills.

This is my current oppinion, i´m currently skeptic on the skeptics. It can easily changed, specially because i had been for many years a complete materialistic skeptic.
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I'm sure it's easy to change your opinion, since it's clear that you don't based your opinion on facts, merely what you feel like believing in.
 
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