Suzanne Somers strikes again

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

It's Big Pharma versus natural holistic Eastern chi-muffin shamanistic people's medicine.

~~ Paul

 

[macdoc]

and Big Pharma is winning on cures and death counts....

a saw off on profits...


••••

Thanks Stout

 

[Eos of the Eons]

To those that automatically reject alternative treatments wholesale...a word of caution...mainstream medicine is a leading "cause of death", alternatives are not.
Poor judgement and errors abound and in the case of mainstream they kill, far too often.

In chronic conditions like type two diabetes an "alternative" approach with diet and exercise over drug may well serve the patient far better.
Recommending such an approach to a type one diabetic should go with a jail sentence...

Uh, where are you getting your information from? The mainstream medical way is to counsel type two diabetics to use exercise and diet to control their condition, unless they don't listen and then need a more wholistic approach including meds so they don't lose parts of their body.

Just because the alt med idiots say otherwise doesn't make it true.

 

[macdoc]

You live in Canada eh....

Little profit in managed care for the drug companies or doctors in the US.

The journal Archives of Internal Medicine reports that spending on diabetes drugs increased by 87% between 1994 and 2007, from $6.7 billion to $12.5 billion. Much of the increase came from doctors prescribing newer, brand-name drugs such as rosiglitazone (brand name Avandia) instead of older generics such as metformin (Glucophage and others).

My son is type one.

 

[Sledge]

The logic: many people don't trust "Western medicine;" trained physicians, drug companies, hospitals, etc. They have more trust in folksy every day people, and "Eastern medicine," new age stuff, "natural" stuff. It's the same reason Airborne is/was so popular--"invented by a second grade teacher!" which actually gave it more credibility than if it was endorsed by medical experts.

I guess I just can't get my head around this distrust of intelligence. To quote Dara O'Briain (it's so annoying to keep finding that other people have said something in a far more eloquent way than me) "Herbal medicine. 'Oh, herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years.' Indeed it has. And then we tested it, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine.'" Do people just not understand how this stuff works, or do they think there's an active conspiracy at work?

 

[softstuff]

I guess I just can't get my head around this distrust of intelligence. To quote Dara O'Briain (it's so annoying to keep finding that other people have said something in a far more eloquent way than me) "Herbal medicine. 'Oh, herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years.' Indeed it has. And then we tested it, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine.'" Do people just not understand how this stuff works, or do they think there's an active conspiracy at work?

This is what astounds me too, on a regular basis. My elderly upstairs neighbour has what her GP thinks is a cancerous growth on her arm, she's refusing to have it removed and has instead plastered it with a variety of "balms"... one of which claimed it was able to remove the "cancer toxins". I've regularly had conversations with her where I've tried to convince her to take this more seriously and have it removed, but to no avail.

Recently she has told me that she doesn't trust doctors.... I queried this, much to her surprise, she said that nobody trusts them now, that they have their own agenda to get you to take drugs of some kind. I replied that I have trusted all my doctors to have my best interests at heart, some recommend no treatment, or diet changes, yet the naturopath or homeopath which she sees regularly always seems to have a variety of treatments to give for any ailment, at a cost of course.

I doubt I'll convince her to have it removed, and worry it may be too late.

 

[LissaLysikan]

The biggest woo believer I ever met was a relative - very anti-science/anti-education (back back backwoods southern US - where education is really considered evil). Developed cancer, got all the woo stuff and tried it, got no real relief (placebo affect for short terms, but noticed that it didn't last). Finally did the chemo/radiation route. Was told at first (since the cancer was already in her brain when it was discovered) that she only had months to live. 6 years later, while still being extremely religious, was preaching the value of doctors to her church. She gave a lot of credit to God, but she also insisted that people recognize the part the doctors played - after a lifetime of putting them down.

 

[technoextreme]

Is it a belief that there's a massive conspiracy to... what? Kill people with cancer chemo?

There now you know your answer.

To those that automatically reject alternative treatments wholesale...a word of caution...mainstream medicine is a leading "cause of death", alternatives are not.
Poor judgement and errors abound and in the case of mainstream they kill, far too often.

This is one of the most stupidest arguments I have read in a while to the point where I would have to say that the nut bags Suzzane Sommers, Dana Ullman, Jenny McCarthy, and whatever other jackasses others can think of could have written it.
Alternative medicine-Guaranteed to die
Real Medicine- Not Guaranteed to die
The only reason why alternative medicine is not the leading killer is because the vast majority of people in the United States are sane.
EDIT: You are kidding right?
EDIT: Im a ****ing idiot. Sorry macdoc.

She should be sued out of existence.

Ignorant ditz.

Chemo IS poison....targetted poison.

I'm still suffering the side effects of that poison but I have no cancer.

I'll get over the side effects.....I wouldn't have lived 2 years without the "poison".

I have an 80% chance of an outright cure....and the radiation was a just in case.

Ehhhh... Its technically not targeted more than it kills the cancer faster than everything else. But scientists are working on targeting cures.

 

[Mojo]

Well, Suzanne Somers strikes again. The bouncy blonde from Three's Company, back in the 70s, has now become a cancer expert.

I caught her last night on TV for a few minutes, where she complained that when she was diagnosed with cancer, all they offered her was surgery, chemo, and radiation. No alternatives! So she wrote a book Knockout to give her solution to the problem of cancer. I couldn't bear to keep watching.

However, when I went online to see if any reviews were out there, I found this fairly reasonable article from CNN. While Dr. Otis Brawley kind of skirts the idea of alternative medicine, he does emphasize the scientific method and urges all to consult with conventional doctors.

Here's Orac on Somers:

Suzanne Somers carpet bombs the media with napalm-grade stupid about cancer

Suzanne Somers' fishy "whole body cancer" scare

One last brief comment about Suzanne Somers

 

[macdoc]

Techno

Ummm you don't know what you are talking about on either count.

Avoidable errors in mainstream medicine is one of the leading causes of death - so bad that Clinton called a presidential inquiry into the situation and every nation has had major efforts to reduce it.

http://www.empowher.com/news/herart...dical-mistakes-are-8th-leading-cause-death-us

Deaths from avoidable medical error more than double in past decade, investigation shows

Mon, 08/10/2009 - 23:45 — sciencestaff Preventable medical mistakes and infections are responsible for about 200,000 deaths in the U.S. each year, according to an investigation by the Hearst media corporation. The report comes 10 years after the Institute of Medicine's " To Err Is Human " analysis, which found that 44,000 to 98,000 people were dying annually due to these errors and called for the medical community and government to cut that number in half by 2004

As I stated - the likes of Sommers should be sued.
Just don't make the error or putting all alternative approaches in the same approbation basket....and don't think for one minute mainstream medicine does no harm.
A cautious - armed with knowledge - approach is required.

Let's take a simple every day example.

Sinusitis - turned out was irritating my throat during chemo - nasty cough that was not handled by cough syrups or lozenges in any meaningful way.- was so bad they ordered a laproscopy of my throat and lungs just to make sure there was no cancer. Turned out no - just irritated inflamed throat.

Doc suggests ( in good faith ) an over the counter for post nasal drip which was causing the irritated throat ( mucus membranes get very sensitive in chemo. ) The drug worked to a degree but I felt awful - no energy - and that in chemo regimen is NOT tolerable.

Tried a simple _ made sense - alternative - a saline rinse - turns out there is a convenient kit. Worked like a charm tho a bit strange initially. Reduced my migraine frequency as well.
Use it twice a day now.
The doc did not know about this nor would I expect him too....no salesman is in handing out free samples and schmoozing...there is little profit in salt and water.

If you are anemic, docs will often give you an iron shot. Too often they don't know that without B12 the iron is useless....an ND would.

Alternatives have their place and an inordinate amount of woo attached but rarely do harm.

Mainstream does wonders, has considerable woo attached to drugs and too often does harm.

•••

Monoclonal anti-bodies light up the cancer cells for your immune system to destroyhttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/monoclonal-antibody/CA00082

snip

Make the cancer cell more visible to the immune system. The immune system attacks foreign invaders in your body, but it doesn't always recognize cancer cells as enemies. A monoclonal antibody can be directed to attach to certain parts of a cancer cell. In this way, the antibody marks the cancer cell and makes it easier for the immune system to find.

CHOP+R is tha mainstream lymphoma treatment with a very high success rate - the R is monoclonal antibodies.

 

[fls]

Techno

Ummm you don't know what you are talking about on either count.

Avoidable errors in mainstream medicine is one of the leading causes of death - so bad that Clinton called a presidential inquiry into the situation and every nation has had major efforts to reduce it.

http://www.empowher.com/news/herart...dical-mistakes-are-8th-leading-cause-death-us

As I stated - the likes of Sommers should be sued.
Just don't make the error or putting all alternative approaches in the same approbation basket....and don't think for one minute mainstream medicine does no harm.
A cautious - armed with knowledge - approach is required.

What is interesting about the issue of avoidable error is that the death rate among those who experience avoidable error is not different than the death rate among those who don't - i.e. errors tend to occur under circumstances where you are more likely to die irrespective of the error. The error may be avoidable, but the death is not. If alternatives are not a "leading cause of death", what this really suggests is that alternatives are not used under circumstances where people are at risk of death. If they were, then they would similarly show up as a "leading cause of death". In some ways, this is a sign that the system is working.

Also, it should be noted that saline is a conventional treatment. That an individual physician is not familiar with a specific conventional treatment does not somehow make that treatment "alternative".

Linda

 

[technoextreme]

Tried a simple _ made sense - alternative - a saline rinse - turns out there is a convenient kit. Worked like a charm tho a bit strange initially. Reduced my migraine frequency as well.
Use it twice a day now.
The doc did not know about this nor would I expect him too....no salesman is in handing out free samples and schmoozing...there is little profit in salt and water.

God you do actually sound like Suzzane Sommers and her ilk. I suffer from sinusitis regularly. I learned the same trick from a freaking doctor. Do go on. I happily know that I will be able to out anecdote you.

What is interesting about the issue of avoidable error is that the death rate among those who experience avoidable error is not different than the death rate among those who don't - i.e. errors tend to occur under circumstances where you are more likely to die irrespective of the error.

Wow. Nicely put. I was trying to phrase something to that effect also. My grandpa is 96 years old. At that age you make the slightest of errors and he will drop dead faster than you can blink.

If you are anemic, docs will often give you an iron shot. Too often they don't know that without B12 the iron is useless....an ND would.

Complete and utter ********. First thing my grandpa got when he was anemic was blood.

 

[Mojo]

Avoidable errors in mainstream medicine is one of the leading causes of death - so bad that Clinton called a presidential inquiry into the situation and every nation has had major efforts to reduce it.

Ah, the old "iatrogenic disease exists therefore sCAM works" argument.

 

[macdoc]

FLS
That is incorrect - you are trying to conflate two different issues and diminish the reality of avoidable error in mainstream medicine.

It means just that....avoidable and I would be very surprised if you could come up with any paper in support of your thesis.

The "treatments" on the alternative side are not in the acute range nor are they targetted that way.

As I said - risk is lower reward is lower.

That in no way exonerates the unacceptable risk of death from hospital...directly attributable to avoidable error which people should be very aware of.

Those hand sanitizers and gloves are there for good reason...there is risk present.....above beyond any condition you might have.

••

Ah, the old "iatrogenic disease exists therefore sCAM works" argument.

Bullshyte....try reading what I wrote -

You're an ideologue that can't read. Worshipped your doctor lately....

 

[Mojo]

Those hand sanitizers and gloves are there for good reason...

To give people cancer, apparently.

 

[technoextreme]

FLS
That is incorrect - you are trying to conflate two different issues and diminish the reality of avoidable error in mainstream medicine.

It means just that....avoidable and I would be very surprised if you could come up with any paper in support of your thesis.

Yes and that is just vague enough to be completely useless. Yes its pretty straight forward when someone has the wrong limb/organ removed but once you start getting down to the minutia how the hell do you define mistake.

 

[macdoc]

Complete and utter ********. First thing my grandpa got when he was anemic was blood.

Oh that was brilliant...perhaps in his case he needed blood...many anemics do not - they have iron deficiency and too few doctors know the B-12 link.

That your doctor actually suggested a saline rinse is an excellent result...mine did not and the tendency is to prescribe drugs for chronic conditions that often would do as well or better with alternative approaches - which some mainstream hospitals offer now in the form of educational clinics.....a movement very welcome. Yet drug prescriptions continue to soar as doctors rarely have time to "manage" a patient from a non-drug standpoint.

The problem arises in the drugs are the FIRST approach to chronic conditions in too many situations..

Do you really think the Ritalin prescriptions level for teen age boys is a justifiable medical response???

Ritalin epidemic overpowering
By Janet Fyfe-Yeomans and Bruce McDougallThe Daily TelegraphApril 27, 2007 01:00am+
THE GOVERNMENT must hold a national inquiry into the ADHD epidemic and the long-term effects of giving powerful stimulants like Ritalin to thousands of children, Opposition federal health spokeswoman Nicola Roxon said yesterday.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21629154-2,00.html


That insane numbers of C-sections are a justifiable approach over licenced supervised midwifery...

The C-section epidemic

Printer Friendly Send to friend
September 23, 2007

More women are dying because of excessive reliance on the procedure.

Page 15

Jennifer Block

Pre-term births are on the rise. Nearly one-third of women have major abdominal surgery to give birth. And compared with other industrialized countries, the United States ranks second-to-last in infant survival. For years, these numbers have suggested something is terribly amiss in delivery wards. Now there is even more compelling evidence that the U.S. maternity care system is failing: For the first time in decades, the number of women dying in childbirth has increased.

Outcomes of planned home births with certified professional midwives: large prospective study in North America


Conclusions Planned home birth for low risk women in North America using certified professional midwives was associated with lower rates of medical intervention but similar intrapartum and neonatal mortality to that of low risk hospital births in the United States.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7505/1416?ehom

and nations with strong licenced midwife programs have a lower birth death rate than the US.

Mainstream ideologues with blind belief are as stupid in their own way as those trusting critical conditions like cancer to alternatives.....

Blinkered....and foolish to actual risk.

 

[technoextreme]

Oh that was brilliant...perhaps in his case he needed blood...many anemics do not

I know why. HES FREAKING 95 YEARS OLD. I'm just pointing out that you are idiotically generalizing. And many of my doctors knew about the saline solution. And the only ND I know of was called a moron by 96 grandpa for sending him boxes of twinkees. Mind you it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that junk food isn't the best of things to SEND TO A 96 YEAR OLD.

Mainstream ideologues with blind belief are as stupid in their own way as those trusting critical conditions like cancer to alternatives.....

Blinkered....and foolish to actual risk.

Oooo please. I know of the risks. I'm just not a paranoid dellusional nutjob.

 

[Stout]

Also, it should be noted that saline is a conventional treatment. That an individual physician is not familiar with a specific conventional treatment does not somehow make that treatment "alternative".

Linda

I learned about using saline aka salt water, to treat a sore throat from my doctor years ago and I've also used it to treat an abscessed tooth. I wouldn't describe it as pleasant to use, it's not like it's cherry flavoured or anything but on the rare occasions when I do get one of these conditions, it's my default method of treatment.

Of course, it may lead to my having a heart attack in the future.

 

[LibraryLady]

My doctor handed me a free 100 packet starter kit for the sinus rinse (Neilmed) which I use every evening before bed, and it did indeed reduce my sinusitis dramatically.


Let me repeat:

My doctor handed me a free 100 packet starter kit.

He did not charge me for it.

Get it?