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Surface debacle

As for OP:

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The bottom line is that Windows RT/Surface [non-Pro] was a terrible idea from the start. Forget about the fact that IOS and Android were already well entrenched - that's the case in many markets companies try to enter. No, the facts that killed Windows RT were that a) it sacrificed the primary Windows advantage of end-user compatibility and b) Intel was well on the way to making a tablet-friendly x86 configuration (though they need to keep working on power efficiency).

If they really wanted to increase their ARM presence, they would have been far better off expanding the reach of Windows Phone 8 (suitably renamed) to smaller (<10") ARM-based tablets (instead of creating a third OS) and sticking with x86 and full Windows 8 for larger (10"+) tablets. Whatever features they wanted to add in RT could then have been added to Windows Phone 8 if they wanted to enhance their tablet offerings.

I still don't think they'd be competing well with Android and IOS (not in the short term at least), but creating a third Microsoft operating system was the last thing they needed to do, and the last thing customers wanted.
 
icerat said:
I know several surface users and they all love them.

Surface's biggest issue was price. It was a new product that offered no special advantage outside the keyboard, but lacked the market support in apps, peripherals, or subsidised 3g/4g telco subscription purchasing.

They then sold it without the keyboard and for the same price (or more) than competitors. I love Windows 8, but even I didn't buy a Surface, I bought a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1.

I would have bought a Surface Pro if it had tablet-like battery life, but it doesn't.

If they'd brought the Surface out, undercut the competition on price and sold it with they keyboard covers they would have had a hit.

None of this wasn't obvious before the launch, so only FSM knows what they were thinking.
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Very much this. Everyone I know with a Windows 8 mobile device thinks it's absolutely fine, and there's nothing at all wrong with the Surface. The problem is that Windows 8's reputation has been dragged down by association with the desktop version, where many people do dislike the interface, and the Surface, as icerat says, simply wasn't anything special. I'd say it's even less special, since the keyboard wasn't a new idea either - it was an attempt to copy the Asus Transformer, and I doubt that was the even the first. It's not bad, it's just not good either.

I would feel sorry for Microsoft since they seem to get a lot of hate for no apparent reason. Except that, again as icerat says, this was all incredibly obvious to everyone right from the start, so there's absolutely no excuse for Microsoft not to have taken it all into account. On the plus side, they may be starting to learn their lesson. The Xbone was also announced with a whole pile of incredibly stupid ideas that no sane person would have approved. But this time they've already reversed quite a few of them before release based on feedback from potential customers. It may not be enough to save the Xbone, but at least there are signs that they're not actually deliberately trying to screw up.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
:dl:


That show is awful, but I can't stop watching because I want to see how it ends.
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I got bad news for you, Scrut. The show was renewed. So what was going to be a 15-episode mini-series with an actual ending will now be dragged out over 2, 3 or more seasons.

I'm watching it because I read the book but I may drop out as I've read from interviews with people involved with the show that at this point it's going to be wildly different than the source material. If it was well-acted and well-written I'd stick with it for sure, but I agree with you. It's pretty damn bad.
 
kajata said:
I got bad news for you, Scrut. The show was renewed. So what was going to be a 15-episode mini-series with an actual ending will now be dragged out over 2, 3 or more seasons.

I'm watching it because I read the book but I may drop out as I've read from interviews with people involved with the show that at this point it's going to be wildly different than the source material. If it was well-acted and well-written I'd stick with it for sure, but I agree with you. It's pretty damn bad.
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It desperately wants to be Lost, but it's no where near being in the same league.
 
anglolawyer said:
I have been introduced to Citrix in the last few weeks and now pray daily that someone will blow my brains out. It spends a lot of time not working.
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Oh yeah. Very much Oh Yeah. We use that and the amazing thing is that it works at all.

I'm surprised you didn't get Fusion and add Windows to your Macs at least at first. I'd wait for them to wear out before buying new hardware. In fact you could simply have installed Windows on them directly with Boot Camp.
 
rjh01 said:
Microsoft will have to produce something that is different from what is on the market. Something that a lot of people want, but currently do not know it. Either that or stick to PCs.
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The problem with that strategy is that, from Microsoft's point of view, I don't think even they know what that would be.
 
OCaptain said:
The problem with that strategy is that, from Microsoft's point of view, I don't think even they know what that would be.
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They do seem to be backpeddling after public outcry an awful lot these days, with Windows 8, Xbox One, and some licensing issue on Office. They really want to dictate how people should use their products without realizing that people already know how they want to use their products.
 
elbe said:
They do seem to be backpeddling after public outcry an awful lot these days, with Windows 8, Xbox One, and some licensing issue on Office. They really want to dictate how people should use their products without realizing that people already know how they want to use their products.
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What I mean is this: it's one thing for a technology company to think they know what's best for us. All that takes is some arrogance and lots of money to spend on projects. Microsoft has that. But it's quite another to actually know what's best for us.

I'm reminded of the last time this happened - with the iPad. In the months and weeks prior to its release, the tech press was predicting that Apple was going to release a netbook. The ultimate netbook, but a netbook nonetheless, because it's what they had to do in order to survive in an increasingly-competitive PC space. And it was going to cost about $800-$900.

When the iPad finally came out - starting at $400, it was so far removed from anything that anyone was expecting, that it took some time for people to admit that Apple did have their finger positioned pretty sensitively on the pulse of what people really wanted from an inexpensive portable device.

Microsoft is missing one of two components - either the commitment to their convictions (ala reversing their XBone always-connected paradigm), or the ability to bring their visions to life as products.
 
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Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Pick an important GUI feature and explain why Windows' implementation is significantly worse than Mac's.

Don't have to; just wondering.

~~ Paul
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Windows 8 doesn't have to be "significantly worse than Mac's". It just has to be significantly worse than previous versions of Windows. And it arguably is.
 
OCaptain said:
What I mean is this: it's one thing for a technology company to think they know what's best for us. All that takes is some arrogance and lots of money to spend on projects. Microsoft has that. But it's quite another to actually know what's best for us.

I'm reminded of the last time this happened - with the iPad. In the months and weeks prior to its release, the tech press was predicting that Apple was going to release a netbook. The ultimate netbook, but a netbook nonetheless, because it's what they had to do in order to survive in an increasingly-competitive PC space. And it was going to cost about $800-$900.

When the iPad finally came out - starting at $400, it was so far removed from anything that anyone was expecting, that it took some time for people to admit that Apple did have their finger positioned pretty sensitively on the pulse of what people really wanted from an inexpensive portable device.

Microsoft is missing one of two components - either the commitment to their convictions (ala reversing their XBone always-connected paradigm), or the ability to bring their visions to life as products.
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I would say it's a blend of both. They don't have a vision they believe in. They wait for other companies to develop products and services that reshape the market, and then they try to imitate that success. They also have trouble executing, which further delays their market entry and ensures that whatever they come up with won't be all that impressive.

They could have launched a tablet, or a hybrid, with the Windows 8 interface while also selling a version of Windows that retained the traditional desktop. But that wouldn't have been any more successful than Surface, because their offering is no better than what is already available.

They knew that, so they tried to leverage their lock on the PC desktop to create momentum for their new interface. They presumably had a vision of millions of people getting used to Windows 8 on their PC and then wanting the same familiar UI on their phones and tablets. It was wishful thinking in the extreme.

They may end up losing their dominance of the PC desktop, which they maintain because of third-party support and not because Windows is any better than Linux as an OS.

I'm looking at Google's new Nexus 7 for $230... a 1920x1200 screen. One of the side effects of that is that Amazon has lowered the price of the Kindle Fire HD to $160, a price point where I'm tempted to buy one even though I have no need for it. If MS really wants to compete in that space, and be profitable, they are going to have to come up with a value proposition that is a hell of a lot better than the Surface, and they will also have to change their business model away from licensing, because tablet pricing does not have room for a $100 OS license.

If the unfrozen caveman CEO won't retire, and no one will fire him, I think he should stick to his desktop franchise, serve those users with real commitment, and get new ideas through acquisitions.
 
Wudang said:
We've* experimented with Citrix virtual desktops and servers and they're okay for large numbers of people with basically identical use cases. There are a few issues to do with managing the estate. Plus it always feels a bit lagging somehow. Worse than say using mstsc to a win server or Hummingbird to unix servers.


*major bank.
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My hospital is much the same. We've been using Citrix for piping in the vast majority of our applications for years now. We just implemented Virtual Desktops and VMWare for several floors. We often have issues with the terminal server crashing sessions or preventing users from getting a new virtual session. We have a bunch of aging WinXP machines, and we're slowly replacing them with Win7 machines. I doubt we'll switch to Windows 8 any time soon. Remote support for Win8 machines is abysmal, even with special applications.

Some users are part of a pool that use Haiku and Canto for their mobile devices for read-only access to our Electronic Health Record system. That allows docs to read notes, but we don't give them the privilege for editing records on these devices.

Perhaps from a very basic consumer standpoint, I could see users switching to tablets. I have an iPhone, but I use my laptop and desktop for everything else aside from playing Angry Birds and checking email. A tablet would just not be able to do what I need it to do.
 
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