Sub Jailed-ness

Its silly to say that pot has no negative affects. We all know of a major pothead whos life is consumed/ruined by weed. Im not a "gateway" argument guy but most people who are really into pot also graduate to harder things.

I have a confession. In college I introduced my naive sheltered roomate to the wonders of pot. In a couple years he was a full fledged pot head slacker failing out of school. I remeber him dropping out of this internship cause they required a drug test.

And while I think back to how funny the whole thing was I do feel a little guilty.:p

Moral to story: Pot can FU up.
 
rikzilla said:
My youngest daughter even says it should be illegal! So just maybe the culture is moving more towards further restrictions in the future, not less?? :confused:
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I think it's both. Like a lot of issues, I think it's becoming polarized as time goes on: both the pro and con sides are expanding, at the expense of the middle ground.

Well, I think what I'm saying is that when a culture shows approval of an activity we tend to get more of it. That was certainly true in the 70's. Of course MJ wasn't legal then either, but the culture showed alot of approval in other ways. There seem to be alot more kids nowadays that reject illegal drugs than there were back then.
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And that's the central question: would decriminalization imply approval? I think your argument has some validity in the short term, but certainly the current anti-smoking campaigns (and the general enmity toward smoking in general) is evidence that it doesn't have to be the case in the big picture.

But I didn't argue that. What I would argue is that pot currently has a stigma; "illegal drug". Remove that stigma and you will get more kids using it. Once they do that it's alot easier to justify experimenting with other "illegal drugs".
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I don't know. I think you're dismissing the appeal of the taboo too much. Countries that allow drinking at a younger age (Europe, for example) have less of a problem with teenage alcoholism than the U.S.

Decriminalizing is not the same as legalising. But I get what you mean.
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Sorry if I was unclear -- I'm only in favor of decriminalization under strict regulation. Same arrangement as with alcohol sounds good to me.

That said, I have another question: Do you believe that the problems that would be caused by decriminalizing marijuana outweigh the problems caused by our attempts to ban it? A hundred thousand people in jail, some of whom probably die along the way...and don't forget almost $50 billion of taxpayer money to support the whole endeavor -- that's over $100 from every person (man, woman, and child) every year! Do you think it's worth it?

Jeremy
 
toddjh said:
I think it's both. Like a lot of issues, I think it's becoming polarized as time goes on: both the pro and con sides are expanding, at the expense of the middle ground.
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:confused: It's how the culture changes.



And that's the central question: would decriminalization imply approval? I think your argument has some validity in the short term, but certainly the current anti-smoking campaigns (and the general enmity toward smoking in general) is evidence that it doesn't have to be the case in the big picture.
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Well, like I said..tacit approval would be easy to infer. How would you feel if your Dad went from banning your use of the car under pain of severe grounding to say,...just not caring if you took it or not? That's tacit approval. At least that's how I'd take it. (Not to say you are a kid or anything...for what it's worth you're a damned smart one if you are...)

I agree about your point about smoking. If we could have quiet decrim of small quantities, while ramping up the anti-drug message it may work...but again it's mixed messages. Perhaps it would work? Not sure, but it would be very good to get non-violent drug offenders like Dan out right away. Other than that I don't really see much of an upside for the community...and in order to change pre-existing attitudes you really do need to show a major up-side! I bet anything that's the brick wall NORML keeps running into. They've certainly been at this issue long enough with few victories to show for it.

I don't know. I think you're dismissing the appeal of the taboo too much. Countries that allow drinking at a younger age (Europe, for example) have less of a problem with teenage alcoholism than the U.S.
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That's true,...but again it's cultural and has it's origins in public health, not copping a buzz. Remember, way back when in old Europe people of all ages drank wine because the water was simply too dangerous to trust. :p



Sorry if I was unclear -- I'm only in favor of decriminalization under strict regulation. Same arrangement as with alcohol sounds good to me.
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So it sounds like we agree in principle. I'm just less inclined to believe that that's really a good idea.


That said, I have another question: Do you believe that the problems that would be caused by decriminalizing marijuana outweigh the problems caused by our attempts to ban it? A hundred thousand people in jail, some of whom probably die along the way...and don't forget almost $50 billion of taxpayer money to support the whole endeavor -- that's over $100 from every person (man, woman, and child) every year! Do you think it's worth it?

Jeremy
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Well, I don't know where you got the figures...but I'm inclined to agree that the cost of the status quo is high. I'm sure there's a better smarter way to administer the drug laws...but repealing them sounds like it would carry it's own costs. Harder yet to quantify.

So I think we agree for the most part,...I just think my take on dealing with it is better than yours. :D The laws are fair...but Dan is a good example of them being used in a way contrary to their spirit.

-z
 
The blues come fallin', they fall like drops of rain
The blues come fallin', they fall like drops of rain
I've got to spend my Christmas locked up in jail again
In jail on Christmas day again, ain't that a pain!
Oh baby, baby, baby, ain't that a pain!

Oh Santa, Santa, Santa, come here to me in jail
Oh Santa, Santa, Santa, come here to me in jail
Bring me a Christmas present, someone to go my bail
Jail on Christmas day, again ain't that a pain!
Oh baby, baby, baby, ain't that a pain!

This food here, Santa, it ain't fit to eat
This food here. Santa, it ain't fit to eat
Won't you come and bring me a plate of turkey meat?
In jail on Christmas day again, ain't that a pain!
Oh baby, baby, baby, ain't that a pain!

The jailhouse blues have got me, they've got the best of me
The jailhouse blues have got me, they've got the best of me
My baby doesn't love me, I got no Christmas tree
In jail on Christmas day again, ain't that a pain!
Oh baby, baby, baby, ain't that a pain!


CHRISTMAS IN JAIL – AIN’T THAT A PAIN by Leroy Carr

Vocal with piano, with Francis "Scrapper" Blackwell - guitar.

Chicago, August 13, 1929.
 
My thanks to Frank for finally putting me in a sig. Though being a dick he won't admit that I corrected the mistake before he noticed it. Oh well.

I'm sorry sub is in jail. I certainly am against the laws that put him there. My best wishes to him.
 
Dear Mr O'Leary,

The Parole Board has completed its review of your self-initiated application for Pardon or Commutation of Sentence and forwarded its determination to the Governor. Based on the Parole Board's recommendation, the Governor has denied your application.


Sincerely yours,
Teresa Bingman
Deputy Legal Counsel
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Further evidence that this remains a brutal and backward planet.
 
Dan's been moved again. Was it for saying this about the warden?

His hair was bright orange, his cheeks were rouged, his forehead was caked with Mantan, and his mouth was moving so fast that the words poured out in a high-pitched chattering whine...No! I thought. This can't be true.... He looked like three iguanas in a feeding frenzy.
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Write him and find out. PM me for the new address.
 
Frank Newgent said:
Dan's been moved again. Was it for saying this about the warden?
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Wasn't that quote someone talking about Hubert Humphrey? It sounds familiar.

Can you PM me Dans new address? I'm hoping that the move is to get him into a lower security facility....
 
The Fool said:

I'm hoping that the move is to get him into a lower security facility....
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An e mail from Dan's brother forwarded to me:


HELLO O'LEARY'S, I MADE A SPUR OF THE MOMENT ROAD TRIP TO SEE DAN THIS LAST WEEKEND. HE HAS BEEN MOVED TO THE ** AT ** CORRECTIONS WHICH IS REALLY JUST ANOTHER BRANCH AT **. IT'S JUST AROUND THE CORNER. HIS UNIT IS SELF CONTAINED WITH 120 INMATES. HE HAS ONE ROOMMATE AND HIS OWN KEY TO HIS CELL. THIS SECTION IS ALL NON-VIOLENT AND THERE AREN'T ARE SEX OFFENDERS ETC.

MOSTLY DUI AND DRUG OFFENSES DAN SAY'S. I SAW HIM ON SAT BRIEFLY IT TOOK AWHILE TO FIND HIM SINCE HE HAD JUST BEEN MOVED. THEN WHEN THEY FOUND HIM AND SENT ME TO THE CORRECT FACILITY IT WAS SHIFT CHANGE AND THEN IT WAS INMATE COUNT THEN THEY HAD AN INCIDENT THE GUARDS HAD TO TAKE CARE OF. SO AFTER ABOUT 2HRS I COULD SEE HIM BUT THEY SAID THIS WOULD CAUSE HIM TO MISS DINNER, SO I WAITED FOR HIM TO EAT THEN GOT TO SEE HIM. HE LOOKED REALLY GOOD CONSIDERING WHERE HE IS. AS GOOD AS IT GETS IT STILL SUCKS.

HE SAID NOT TO WORRY AND NOT TO LET EVERYONE KNOW HOW MUCH FUN IT IS BECAUSE THEN EVERY ONE WILL WANT TO GET IN THERE. WE HAD A SHORT VISIT ON SAT. I WENT BACK ON SUNDAY FOR A COUPLE HRS. WE HAD A COKE AND SOME LAUGHS. THEY HAVE SO MANY RULES. EVEN IF THEY DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE RULES ARE RULES. HE SAID THE GUARDS ARE MISERABLE PEOPLE. ABOUT 1 IN 8 IS OK.

IF ANYONE WANTS TO GO I CAN GIVE DETAILS ON HOW TO GET THERE. I WOULD NEXT CALL BEFORE I DRIVE 5HRS TO MAKE SURE HE IS AT THAT LOCATION. HE CAN GET MOVED AND DOESN'T KNOW WHERE HE'LL GO!! AFTER YOU ** TO ** IT IS EXIT * OR *.

BOTH WILL TAKE YOU TO THE FACILITY. IT'S ABOUT 30/40 MINUTES NORTH OF ** ON A CLEAR DRY DAY. THE RIDE HOME WAS TOUGH BUT NOT AS TOUGH AS BEING LOCKED UP. I GLAD I GOT UP TO SEE HIM. HE PROBABLY WILL HAVE TO WORK IN THIS UNIT, THAT MAY HELP SOME TIME GO BY. ANY MAIL IS GOOD, IT GIVES HIM SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

CATCH UP WITH YOU ALL SOON
*

 
I don't understand why they keep moving him? What sort of policy is that, can anybody explain?
 
Cleopatra said:

I don't understand why they keep moving him? What sort of policy is that, can anybody explain?
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Call it a progressive disconnection of decision-makers from reality, Your Highness.
 
I missed this thread somehow.

I don't really know sub-g, but he was an intelligent and witty poster. We didn't agree on a lot, but he usually had good points and occasionally convinced me to rethink issues.

As I said, I don't really know sub-g and won't presume to write him, but the thread and whole situation makes me sad; I hope the circumstances are given more consideration on appeal or through the parole system.

N/A
 
My letter to him goes out in tonight's mail.

Hell, yes, I presume. We might not have been "best buds," but it seems to me it's the very least I can do.
 
Dan's sister emailed me with this:


Here is a letter we are hoping to gather signatures on to reverse the terrible decision made on Dan's case. I'm sure you may know more people who would like to have a voice in this.

JUSTICE FOR DAN O'LEARY


Dan O'Leary (inmate #404214) is presently incarcerated, serving a 2 year mandantory sentence for possessing a firearm during (not in) the commission of a felony.

The felony was growing marijuana, for which he received 3 years probation.

The "firearm" was an inoperable, single shot .22 rifle his late father gave him when he was 12 years old. There was no ammunition, and it was kept in a closet Dan had converted into a memorial to his father.

At age 51 this was Dan's first offence of any kind.

Before trial Dan was free on unsupervised personalbond for over a year. After trial, while he appealed the firearm charge, Dan successfully completed all the terms of his probation and was discharged.

The Michigan Department of Corrections has denied Dan placement in the Community Residential Program (CRP) on the basis that there is "not reasonable assurance that (he) would not pose a threat to the community." The decision to deny Dan placement in the CRP is arbitary and unjust and should be reversed.
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May be sent to
Gov. J. Granholm
P.O.Box 30013
Lansing MI 48909

Patricia Caruso
MDOC
P.O.Box 3003
Lansing MI 48909

SenBHammerstrom@senate.michigan.gov



Thank you for your support.
 
Amazing how so many people got so much of my case wrong.
2 years for an inoperable keepsake rifle. The rest is irrelevent.
 
subgenius said:
Amazing how so many people got so much of my case wrong.
2 years for an inoperable keepsake rifle. The rest is irrelevent.
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At the risk of being too skeptical...

Sub, is that you? :confused:

Are you out of stir? :confused:

Or just being allowed computer priveleges?

Because if you are truly back among the fold...

:cool: :) :D :j1: :clap: :bgrin:


Welcome home. Been a long time since we've seen ye. Put your feet up and sit a spell. :th:
 
subgenius said:
Amazing how so many people got so much of my case wrong.
2 years for an inoperable keepsake rifle. The rest is irrelevent.
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Welcome back, man. It's very good to see you back with us again. I hope your spirit isn't broken and that your health is good.

AS
 
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