Strength training every day?

Ziggurat said:
Damn straight. Put in the work now, you'll be very glad when you turn 70 and can still run around while your contemporaries are getting canes or even scooters.

Also, squats and deadlifts don't just work your legs, they also work your hips, back, and "core". And you would be amazed at how much stronger you can get your legs and back, even if you don't think they're weak right now. You will never, ever find that you're TOO strong for anything.

Lastly, even though this isn't the main reason to do them, women who do squats and deadlifts develop really nice asses. :blush:
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Very true. Here's one example; it's a vid of Olympic weightlifter Kris Pope. Start vid at 1:34 seconds
 
Bikewer said:
As the others say.... With bodyweight exercises, you will get stronger... Up to the point where you can do oh...15-20 repetitions. After that, you’re doing very little to increase strength, and you’re improving endurance.
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"Very little" is not really true. Assuming you don't plateau, 15-20 reps will give you an increase in top end strength gains of about 2/3 that of 6-8 reps over a few months using similar volume. At 30 reps, you're down to about half the gains over that time period. Top end strength will improve up to 150-200 reps. This has been well studied. You won't find long term studies or similar studies on already trained subjects for obvious reasons.

So high reps are not the best use of your time in seeking top end strength if you are a beginner with no joint issues. Otherwise, they may be useful to work through a plateau or to increase or preserve strength when joint problems prevent the use of heavy weight.
 
Modified said:
"Very little" is not really true. Assuming you don't plateau, 15-20 reps will give you an increase in top end strength gains of about 2/3 that of 6-8 reps over a few months using similar volume. At 30 reps, you're down to about half the gains over that time period. Top end strength will improve up to 150-200 reps. This has been well studied. You won't find long term studies or similar studies on already trained subjects for obvious reasons.

So high reps are not the best use of your time in seeking top end strength if you are a beginner with no joint issues. Otherwise, they may be useful to work through a plateau or to increase or preserve strength when joint problems prevent the use of heavy weight.
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This is wrong. High rep sets are worse for joints than low rep sets, which will strengthen weak joints. That's why you get repetitive stress injuries. And 20 rep sets don't work nearly as well for strength beyond the very beginning, when everything works, and 100 rep sets are a BAD idea for strength. Most exercise science studies don't capture this because they mostly study untrained individuals over short training periods, but you should be thinking long term.
 
Ziggurat said:
This is wrong. High rep sets are worse for joints than low rep sets, which will strengthen weak joints.
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That is a strange claim. Have you ever had a joint injury - torn cartilage, strained ligaments? Heavy loads will immediately worsen it and/or cause pain, while light loads even with greater volume will not.

That's why you get repetitive stress injuries.
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I would assume similar volume of course. If you have tendinitis, an equal volume of heavy load work is probably going to worsen it more than light load work.

And 20 rep sets don't work nearly as well for strength beyond the very beginning, when everything works
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Quite the opposite. For someone who has plateaued doing sets of 8, moving to 20 rep sets may result in a significant period of improvement in top end strength. There are also studies showing that finishing sets of 30 or so in addition to 5x5 or whatever greatly increase strength gains, possibly due to fascia stretching and other benefits of the "pump".

100 rep sets are a BAD idea for strength.
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Yes, 100 rep sets alone would be a very slow way to gain strength.

Most exercise science studies don't capture this because they mostly study untrained individuals over short training periods, but you should be thinking long term.
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I have been lifting for 36 years. I will maintain similar strength levels or regain strength after a layoff at about the same rate whether doing sets of 5 or sets of 25. I have done both for long periods. Also relevant to the OP, low volume daily with an occasional day off, more volume less often, etc. makes little difference in either maintaining strength or regaining after a layoff. The only thing I have found that makes a noticeable difference is slow vs fast eccentrics. Slow negatives causes a faster return of strength after a layoff and a higher plateau of strength levels.
 
Modified said:
That is a strange claim. Have you ever had a joint injury - torn cartilage, strained ligaments? Heavy loads will immediately worsen it and/or cause pain, while light loads even with greater volume will not.
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If you're working with an actual tear, or you're in active recovery (where you're not building strength but repairing tissue), sure. But if it's just a "bad knee" or the like, then lifting heavy (and therefore low rep) is still the way to go.

Quite the opposite. For someone who has plateaued doing sets of 8, moving to 20 rep sets may result in a significant period of improvement in top end strength.
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Sets of 8 is already suboptimal for improving top end strength. Most people are better off doing sets of 5, and advanced lifters often move on to sets of 3.

Yes, 100 rep sets alone would be a very slow way to gain strength.
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But it's a great way to injure yourself.

I have been lifting for 36 years. I will maintain similar strength levels or regain strength after a layoff at about the same rate whether doing sets of 5 or sets of 25.
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What works for advanced lifters regaining strength they already had is very different from what works for novices gaining strength for the first time.
 
Minoosh said:
I'm looking for better "tone" (whatever that is) and to offset some effects of aging, as well as a modest increase in upper-body strength. Some definition would be nice. Lower-body strength is already pretty good, mostly due to genetics.
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In my book tone and definition typically mean losing the fat that is covering up your muscles while also trying to grow those muscles a bit. Maybe you don't want to be "swole" but when you peel back the fat you want more than just bones.

Three people have mentioned "Starting Strength," so I'll be checking that out.
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Getting back to basics is really the key.

I try to make it to the gym 2-3 times a week. If I can't make it I try to do some pull-ups, pushups and squats at home to keep my muscles working. I know it won't move me forward but I feel like it keeps me from sliding back as far. I've worked up to five, ten and fifteen of each and can pump out five sets in less than 30 minutes. Add in 10 minutes on a recumbent bike and I don't feel as bad for missing. But it won't do as much good as training with free weights.
 
Dr. Keith said:
In my book tone and definition typically mean losing the fat that is covering up your muscles while also trying to grow those muscles a bit. Maybe you don't want to be "swole" but when you peel back the fat you want more than just bones.
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I don't think I could get "swole" if my life depended on it. I don't have the genetics. I'm at the scale of upper-body weakness where anything is going to work to some extent. Just holding my arms over my head starts to get tiring after a minute or so.

I spend way too much time on cardio vs. strength. It seems to release the endorphins which I don't get from lifting weights. Key for me may be learning how to enjoy the strength workouts or at least enjoy the post-workout feeling.
 
Minoosh said:
I don't think I could get "swole" if my life depended on it. I don't have the genetics. I'm at the scale of upper-body weakness where anything is going to work to some extent. Just holding my arms over my head starts to get tiring after a minute or so.

I spend way too much time on cardio vs. strength. It seems to release the endorphins which I don't get from lifting weights. Key for me may be learning how to enjoy the strength workouts or at least enjoy the post-workout feeling.
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After you get your form down you may try doing some sort of high intensity interval training that keeps your heart rate up while you are lifting. It may help with the endorphins side.
 
Minoosh said:
I spend way too much time on cardio vs. strength. It seems to release the endorphins which I don't get from lifting weights. Key for me may be learning how to enjoy the strength workouts or at least enjoy the post-workout feeling.
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At least for me, weightlifting isn't really fun in the moment. Rather, the satisfaction comes from the progress. And if you do it right (buy the book, read it, and do the program), the progress is amazing.

I'm not doing it close to optimally (don't eat and sleep enough), and my gains are pretty modest, but I've gone from an 85 lb squat to a 280 lb squat. Gains are slower now, but I'm not done.
 
I just wanted to bump this thread for a couple of reasons:

1.) To find out how Minoosh is getting along with strength training

2.) To recommend a podcast I have been listening to which explains the Starting Strength program.

https://startingstrengthonlinecoaching.com/barbell-logic-podcast/

It's called Barbell Logic, and while I am not sure how great the presenters' skeptical credentials are, they do appear to be using reason while explaining their program.

In particular, episode 1 explains what is meant by strength in order to differentiate it from other exercise goals and to point out why it is the goal to work on regardless of any other ultimate goals.

They explain, stress, recovery and adaptation, and linear progression.

They also talk about
 
Didn't listen to the podcast as I've not much time, but if it hasn't been mentioned it's worthwhile noting strength as measured by weight lifted doesn't just depend on the muscles. The neurological pathways need to adapt to the movements and increased adaption results in more weight being lifted. This is separate from the actual muscle strength. That's why simply imagining lifting weights can increase your 'strength', i.e. the amount of weight you can lift, in some cases almost as effectively as lifting itself. Up to a point, obviously.
 
Got my squat up to 295 at the end of January. Then I had to travel for a few weeks. Now I'm back down to 255.

Fortunately it doesn't take as long to regain strength as it does to get it the first time.
 
Basic training in the military appears to be more psychological conditioning than any coherent plan for strength training lol, and if I was some weakling I wouldn't even attempt it; maybe strength train alone for a couple years then come back to join.

Low rep (8 to 12), high intensity is best.

I'm not sure what to do for general "cardio" for stamina though, which is my weak point at this point in my young life. I run out of gas after two flights of stairs.
 
IIIClovisIII said:
Low rep (8 to 12), high intensity is best.
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Try 5's.

I'm not sure what to do for general "cardio" for stamina though, which is my weak point at this point in my young life. I run out of gas after two flights of stairs.
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If you have access to it, try a prowler. Ease into it and you won't find yourself throwing up.

If you don't have access to a prowler, rowers are pretty good too. They avoid the impact of running, they involve your back and arms (unlike running, bikes, or elipticals), and the work is almost all concentric so recovery is easier.
 
baron said:
Didn't listen to the podcast as I've not much time, but if it hasn't been mentioned it's worthwhile noting strength as measured by weight lifted doesn't just depend on the muscles. The neurological pathways need to adapt to the movements and increased adaption results in more weight being lifted. This is separate from the actual muscle strength. That's why simply imagining lifting weights can increase your 'strength', i.e. the amount of weight you can lift, in some cases almost as effectively as lifting itself. Up to a point, obviously.
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That's right. The way they define strength is simply force used to move a load (using correct or "perfect" form). Of course that means muscles come into play, but they point out that many people they train have not have to do anything hard in their lives so they balk at having to lift heavy weights. This leads to what a lot of people do in the gym which is to try doing all kinds of machines and exercises that "must be doing something" when really the most effective program is simple:

squats, press (overhead and bench), deadlift

in which weight is incrementally added to the bar each session (linear progression), and which after a few weeks becomes hard (and never gets easier).

But of course that also requires a certain amount of mental toughness and leads a lot of people to believe they cannot lift the bar when they can but don't try hard enough.

There probably are ways in which certain mental tricks or "mindfulness" could help to improve lifting that they haven't explicitly talked about yet (as far as I remember), but they certainly don't dismiss the mental aspects (and other factors such as bad nutrition, lack of sleep, etc...).
 
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