Strength training every day?

[Minoosh]

I don't mean alternating upper body vs. lower body. I'm asking if there's any evidence that light (not pushing to failure) strength exercises work if you do them daily. In basic training, I don't think soldiers take a break from pushups and chin-ups and whatever torture drill sergeants can devise for a daily regimen. People who get strong on their job are working every day.

I started some strength work a week ago, and so far I have had no muscle soreness, which usually tells me I'm making progress. Walking dumbbell lunges used to make me very sore when I first started them. Even though I exercise fairly close to the point of failure, and sometimes reach it, my body has not been sore at all. I'm not putting quite as much emphasis on lifting the maximum, but trying to do lower weights with better form, but I do push myself till I feel the "burn," and usually do 3 sets. This is a mix of basically calisthenics, free weights and some machines.

One basic thing has changed since previous efforts: I now spend 5 hours a day on my feet, moving around, sometimes squatting. This has done phenomenal things for endurance, and it is probably exercising core muscles I never think about, and I do it 5 days or more per week.

 

[Tony99]

What do you mean by "...work if you do them daily."
What is the goal? Getting stronger or getting better at doing a particular motion?

A garbage man who lifts heavy bins everyday gets really good at lifting heavy bins, but does not necessarily get stronger and put on muscle beyond what is needed to do his job.

Training everyday is a messy swamp of information in the strength community. Just google "squat everyday" and see what I mean.
You'll get into the Bulgarian method, Prilepin’s Chart, old Soviet ear Olympic lifting methods etc.

To get stronger you need to add weight to the bar. Lifting to failure is not necessary or even recommended.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

AFAIK, current theory suggests that stressing your muscles well past the comfort zone is necessary to signal the need for increased muscle mass. Basically everything that will not result in injuries lasting longer than a day or two done only once per week should be much much effective than just using the muscles within their normal routines daily.

 

[Bikewer]

Doing pushups and similar calisthenic exercises is not “strength training”. You can indeed do these sorts of exercises daily if you are moderate.... If you train to “failure point” you likely need rest.
Similarly with aerobic exercise. You can go for a run or bike ride daily as long as you stay in moderate effort levels. (Unless you’re an elite athlete)

Strength training is low repetition, heavy weight work. Usually weights that limit repetitions to 5 or under. Normally each set is done to “failure point” (can’t do another repetition).

No more than twice a week for each muscle group involved.

Bodybuilding is quite different.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't mean alternating upper body vs. lower body. I'm asking if there's any evidence that light (not pushing to failure) strength exercises work if you do them daily.

Work to do what? Condition you for endurance? Sure. Increase your strength? Nope. If they're light, they don't stress your strength, so you don't adapt to that stress by getting stronger.

Speaking of which, you don't get stronger by lifting heavy either. You get strong by recovering from lifting heavy. And you can't recover if you're constantly stressing them at a high level.

I started some strength work a week ago, and so far I have had no muscle soreness, which usually tells me I'm making progress.

A lack of muscle soreness indicates you've adapted to that stress, which is good. Muscle soreness is never the goal (though sometimes it's unavoidable). But that's not what indicates continued progress. Continued progress is being able to do more than you did before.

I'm not putting quite as much emphasis on lifting the maximum, but trying to do lower weights with better form, but I do push myself till I feel the "burn," and usually do 3 sets. This is a mix of basically calisthenics, free weights and some machines.

Good form is important. And 3 sets is pretty standard for most lifts. But don't bother with the machines. Basic compound barbell lifts work far better. And get this book:
Starting Strength
Just $10 for the kindle version. There is simply nothing else out there even remotely as good.

 

[Ziggurat]

Strength training is low repetition, heavy weight work. Usually weights that limit repetitions to 5 or under. Normally each set is done to “failure point” (can’t do another repetition).

No more than twice a week for each muscle group involved.

5 reps per set works really well, but three times a week works better for most lifters than twice. The Starting Strength program doesn't split stuff up by "muscle group", you end up squatting and pressing every workout (though alternating between bench and overhead, and deadlifting every other workout).

And particularly at the start, most lifters cannot gauge where the failure point is, so that's not a good guide. You program an increase, and you go for the increase you programmed, and then you program for an increase the next time. If the increase was easy, you don't go for more that day, you stick to the program.

Bodybuilding is quite different.

Yes. Usually higher rep work. Makes the muscles bigger because you're stressing the supporting metabolism more than the muscle fibers themselves, and that increases the muscle volume (but not strength) more.

 

[Tony99]

And get this book:
Starting Strength
Just $10 for the kindle version. There is simply nothing else out there even remotely as good.

^This

 

[Minoosh]

A lack of muscle soreness indicates you've adapted to that stress, which is good. Muscle soreness is never the goal (though sometimes it's unavoidable). But that's not what indicates continued progress. Continued progress is being able to do more than you did before.

I thought muscle soreness indicated lactic acid which indicates I reached the anaerobic range which I understand basically to mean failure. Although I never actually fail with walking dumbbell lunges, I don't collapse or anything.

I don't know if I'm using failure correctly anyway. I know you think it's counterproductive. I also know other people say it's essential.

 

[Minoosh]

Doing pushups and similar calisthenic exercises is not “strength training”.

Why not? Can they not make you stronger? To me it seems a lot like a chest press. Bear in mind that I can barely squeeze out one in actual proper form, so there's a lot of room for improvement. If they got easy (hah!) I could switch to one-handed.

If you said they're not weight training, I'd kind of agree, though you are lifting your own weight. I got strong as a kid on the rings, doing nothing but lifting my own weight. I did it more than twice a week. However I stopped, and I'm female, and I'm not a mesomorph, so I default to having lower upper-body strength.

Strength training is low repetition, heavy weight work. Usually weights that limit repetitions to 5 or under. Normally each set is done to “failure point” (can’t do another repetition).

I've never heard the 5 or under thing before. My info may be out of date. But in literal-minded fashion I'm wondering, isn't something that makes you stronger strength training? Even if I'm just dangling at a chin-up bar because it's all I can do right now?

Bodybuilding is quite different.

Not really interested in body building per se. I do want build and conserve muscle mass. Maybe that is bodybuilding, but I'm not interested nor could I ever succeed in show culture.

 

[Hellbound]

It's more about focus. Push-ups can improve your strength, but they'll have more effect on muscular endurance, and won't improve your strength past a certain point (because the weight/resistance has an upper limit).

On the reps, it's generally a trade-off: lower reps with high resistance builds more strength/mass, while higher reps with lower resistance build more endurance. Usually the range of 8-12 is given for a good trade-off; below that your focusing more on mass/strength, and above that more on endurance.

Any weight training (or resistance training) can improve strength; some ways are faster at adding strength and have a higher upper limit.

What you want to do really depends on what your goal is. From the sound of it, you should be adding a bit of strength (mostly the initial neuro-muscular advances-getting your nerves and muscles used to firing in unison) but more endurance.

 

[Ziggurat]

I thought muscle soreness indicated lactic acid which indicates I reached the anaerobic range which I understand basically to mean failure. Although I never actually fail with walking dumbbell lunges, I don't collapse or anything.

I don't know if I'm using failure correctly anyway. I know you think it's counterproductive. I also know other people say it's essential.

Perhaps I should clarify. Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is what you experience typically the day after you exercise, rather than during the exercise itself. It is not caused by lactic acid. The exact mechanisms remain a little mysterious, but it is primarily caused by eccentric movement under load (ie, the muscles are extending, not contracting).

As for reaching the anaerobic range, that will happen whenever you lift heavy. Reaching it does not indicate failure of any kind. Failure means you try a rep and can't complete it. This should never be the goal during training. It will happen, but if it's happening regularly, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why not? Can they not make you stronger?

Not for very long. To continue to get stronger, you need to gradually increase the load. If you don't increase the load, then your body won't continue to adapt once it has adapted enough. But you can't easily increase the load on a pushup.

To me it seems a lot like a chest press.

Yes, they are similar to a bench press. But a bench press can be incrementally loaded, from very low weights to very high weights.

Bear in mind that I can barely squeeze out one in actual proper form

Which is another reason it's inferior. If you can only do one, you would be better with a lighter weight on the bench press, where you can work in more volume to drive adaptation.

I've never heard the 5 or under thing before.

Most strength training advice is crap. Get the book I linked above.

But in literal-minded fashion I'm wondering, isn't something that makes you stronger strength training? Even if I'm just dangling at a chin-up bar because it's all I can do right now?

Sure, anything that makes you stronger is strength training. But while just dangling from a chin-up bar might make you a bit stronger, it's not a very effective way of doing that. There are much better methods.

Not really interested in body building per se. I do want build and conserve muscle mass. Maybe that is bodybuilding, but I'm not interested nor could I ever succeed in show culture.

Starting Strength isn't about body building, it's just about getting stronger. And it works just as well for women as for men, although women don't "bulk up" like men do (and even men don't usually bulk up like bodybuilders).

I even got my 75-year-old mother into it last year. She's a retired doctor, had a major femur break about 15 years ago (thrown from a horse, needed titanium rod inserted the whole length of the bone) and had lost significant leg strength as a result. Couldn't even squat to full depth on her own. Now she can squat over 80 lbs, and she can't stop raving about it. I hooked her up with a really good coach to get her started, since at that age there's a lot less margin for error, but you can do the program just from the book (there's also videos available online which help).

 

[Steve001]

Why not? Can they not make you stronger? To me it seems a lot like a chest press. Bear in mind that I can barely squeeze out one in actual proper form, so there's a lot of room for improvement. If they got easy (hah!) I could switch to one-handed.

If you said they're not weight training, I'd kind of agree, though you are lifting your own weight. I got strong as a kid on the rings, doing nothing but lifting my own weight. I did it more than twice a week. However I stopped, and I'm female, and I'm not a mesomorph, so I default to having lower upper-body strength.

I've never heard the 5 or under thing before. My info may be out of date. But in literal-minded fashion I'm wondering, isn't something that makes you stronger strength training? Even if I'm just dangling at a chin-up bar because it's all I can do right now?

Not really interested in body building per se. I do want build and conserve muscle mass. Maybe that is bodybuilding, but I'm not interested nor could I ever succeed in show culture.

Grasshopper you have much to learn.
Have you heard of the sport of powerlifting? Use YouTube to lookup Jennifer Thompson, Megsquats, Mark Bell, Starting Strength, Silent Mike and there are many more. You'll learn a lot from all of them.

 

[Bikewer]

As the others say.... With bodyweight exercises, you will get stronger... Up to the point where you can do oh...15-20 repetitions. After that, you’re doing very little to increase strength, and you’re improving endurance.
By doing progressive resistance training, you constantly increase the resistance as you get stronger... A principal illustrated in the famous tale of Milo of Crotona, the Ancient Greek wrestler who trained for the Olympic Games by starting to lift and carry a bull calf as a youngster.
As the bull grew, so did Milo... Who reportedly walked into the Olympic arena carrying the bull... And proceeded to take on all comers.
(Apocryful? Who knows.)

But the principal is sound.

Strength is the ability to do one-time maximum efforts.

Endurance is the ability to do less-than-maximal efforts for a longer period.

 

[Minoosh]

Grasshopper you have much to learn.
Have you heard of the sport of powerlifting? Use YouTube to lookup Jennifer Thompson, Megsquats, Mark Bell, Starting Strength, Silent Mike and there are many more. You'll learn a lot from all of them.

On reflection I realize what I really want is enough upper body strength to have the functionality to move myself - hoist myself up by my hands for example, or unscrew the top of my sea-salt caramel gelato (which actually is largely about traction). I'm not worried about throwing bulls around or anything. If I really have to move something heavy, sometimes I have the option of attacking the object as if I were on a leg press - then I can move it across a floor all right, but I don't always have that option.

I'm looking for better "tone" (whatever that is) and to offset some effects of aging, as well as a modest increase in upper-body strength. Some definition would be nice. Lower-body strength is already pretty good, mostly due to genetics.

Three people have mentioned "Starting Strength," so I'll be checking that out.

 

[Minoosh]

As the others say.... With bodyweight exercises, you will get stronger... Up to the point where you can do oh...15-20 repetitions. After that, you’re doing very little to increase strength, and you’re improving endurance.
By doing progressive resistance training, you constantly increase the resistance as you get stronger... A principal illustrated in the famous tale of Milo of Crotona, the Ancient Greek wrestler who trained for the Olympic Games by starting to lift and carry a bull calf as a youngster.
As the bull grew, so did Milo... Who reportedly walked into the Olympic arena carrying the bull... And proceeded to take on all comers.
(Apocryful? Who knows.)

But the principal is sound.

Strength is the ability to do one-time maximum efforts.

Endurance is the ability to do less-than-maximal efforts for a longer period.

Did he carry the bull around every day, though? Or did he pick it up twice a week?

I could probably bench-press the dachshund, curl, military press etc. but she might object.

ETA: And then I'd have to move up to a golden retriever ... or maybe just a 2nd dachshund to put on the end of a barbell.

 

[Hellbound]

Did he carry the bull around every day, though? Or did he pick it up twice a week?

I could probably bench-press the dachshund, curl, military press etc. but she might object.

ETA: And then I'd have to move up to a golden retriever ... or maybe just a 2nd dachshund to put on the end of a barbell.

Just train them to hold on to each other's tails, then you can add as many as needed to your dachshund train

 

[Ziggurat]

Just train them to hold on to each other's tails, then you can add as many as needed to your dachshund train

How many dachshunds to one retriever?

 

[Steve001]

On reflection I realize what I really want is enough upper body strength to have the functionality to move myself - hoist myself up by my hands for example, or unscrew the top of my sea-salt caramel gelato (which actually is largely about traction). I'm not worried about throwing bulls around or anything. If I really have to move something heavy, sometimes I have the option of attacking the object as if I were on a leg press - then I can move it across a floor all right, but I don't always have that option.

I'm looking for better "tone" (whatever that is) and to offset some effects of aging, as well as a modest increase in upper-body strength. Some definition would be nice. Lower-body strength is already pretty good, mostly due to genetics.

Three people have mentioned "Starting Strength," so I'll be checking that out.

Lower body strength may be good now, but it won't be in future as you age. You are aging right? Work your whole body. You don't have to lift like a powerlifter, but you can get a lot stronger using the principles involved.

P.S. Nothing is funnier than the guys at the gym who want puffy arms and a big chest yet walk around on toothpick sized legs sticking out of their gym shorts. Also check out bodybuilding.com for training programs.

 

[Ziggurat]

Lower body strength may be good now, but it won't be in future as you age. You are aging right? Work your whole body.

Damn straight. Put in the work now, you'll be very glad when you turn 70 and can still run around while your contemporaries are getting canes or even scooters.

Also, squats and deadlifts don't just work your legs, they also work your hips, back, and "core". And you would be amazed at how much stronger you can get your legs and back, even if you don't think they're weak right now. You will never, ever find that you're TOO strong for anything.

Lastly, even though this isn't the main reason to do them, women who do squats and deadlifts develop really nice asses.