Stossel Solves the Health Crisis with Capitalism

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

I just remember you as part of a decent give-and-take in the universal health care thread, where you acknowledged several problems in the existing system and reasons why a universal system could alleviate them, but then I pop over here and see that someone said "capitalist" and it was like a magic word that reverted you fully to your original position.

I may have acknowledged problems. I may have even said UHC could alleviate some of them but I've not said I would like to have a UHC system (I've always loved me some capitalism). If UHC is the ONLY option maybe, but thats what I'm here to explore. I wonder why almost everyone posting believes UHC is the ONLY option. I would really like to stick with the ideas put forward in the video for this thread though. for example, what is true about it, what is false, other ideas that can save mooney without resorting to UHC.

 

[kellyb]

It wasn't quite as scary as it was made out to be. Basically Stossel talks to people and throws around some ideas on why things are getting so expensive. He goes over a few ideas to help lower cost of medical care for everyone. The program also shows how Michael Moore makes a ton of dubious claims in Sicko, and Moore and Stossel meet up for a showdown in the middle (resulting in Moore looking foolish as usual).

What are his claims on the reason for our inflated costs, and what are his claims about how it can be remedied?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

I don't understand. What actually would happen if people had food insurance? And...the car thing...the British make cars, right??? Explain those two points to me like I'm a 5 year old coz I'm lost.

I'm sorry, but you'd have to watch it.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

There were either totally irrelevant to the issue of healthcare (Trabant) or tried to equate two tasks which have very different requirements and problems (shopping for food and shopping for healthcare).

So no, and no?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

With respect to the queues for NHS dentists in the UK, this was caused by dentists opting out of the NHS and only taking private patients.

Are wait time better now? How long does the average joe need to wait for dental?

Why were these dentist opting out of such a wonderful system?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Misrepresentation come in many forms.

Have you heard of the AB that were written in the logbook for showing up drunk for duty.
The next day he wrote in the log "The captain were sober today".

Try look at it again, read post #4 and look for selective reporting and handwaving.

I'm not even sure what that post means????

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Free marked is basicly what you got now

Not quite. He make the difference clear in the show.

 

[kellyb]

I'm sorry, but you'd have to watch it.

So...you don't understand it, either????

 

[Free Thinkr]

So no, and no?

Are you just going to lie now? Or did you want to have a meaningful discussion. You must choose one or the other.

 

[kellyb]

Not quite. He make the difference clear in the show.

How?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

KellyB, what was really scary for me was seeing a Canadian man who was having a heart attack waiting for an available bed. It was also pretty scary for the woman on the show who's doctors told here she had to wait months for "elective" surgery that ended up almost killing her. Luckily she made it to the doctors in the US who were able to treat her and BTW said if she would have waited any longer she'd be dead. She wasn't upset at the cost though. She was just fine with being alive.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Are you just going to lie now? Or did you want to have a meaningful discussion. You must choose one or the other.

How am I lying? I just don't think that the points are "totally irrelevant" like others do.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

So...you don't understand it, either????

Yes.......I don't understand it because I don't feel like breaking down every minute for you. Watch it or don't.

 

[Free Thinkr]

How am I lying? I just don't think that the points are "totally irrelevant" like others do.

You don't see how there's major differences in the market for cars and healthcare? You don't see how there's major differences in the market for food and healthcare?

If that's the case, this thread is a waste of time. But I don't believe you.

 

[kellyb]

KellyB, what was really scary for me was seeing a Canadian man who was having a heart attack waiting for an available bed. It was also pretty scary for the woman on the show who's doctors told here she had to wait months for "elective" surgery that ended up almost killing her. Luckily she made it to the doctors in the US who were able to treat her and BTW said if she would have waited any longer she'd be dead. She wasn't upset at the cost though. She was just fine with being alive.

Those things happen here, too. You need to know the relative frequency of such events to form a grounded opinion on UHC vs ours.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

You don't see how there's major differences in the market for cars and healthcare? You don't see how there's major differences in the market for food and healthcare?

If that's the case, this thread is a waste of time. But I don't believe you.

Sure they are different. I don't think they are tottally irrelevant just because you say so. There are plenty of other government run organizations here that perform poorly, would you like a list?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

So if our healthcare is so bad, why did the people from other countries (famous Italian singer, Jordans pres, etc) choose to come here instead of their current system?

I thought it was funny when Stossel pointed out that Moore basically wanted to turn over HC to a government he hates and has ZERO trust for. His response was "Well, we use to do things right." Then points out WWII, pffft!!!

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Are wait time better now?

Yes.

How long does the average joe need to wait for dental?

Once you are on a dentist's list there is no waiting time as such. The queues were to get on an NHS dentist's list.

Have a look at the difference in price between private and NHS dental charges:

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/dentist/nhs-private-prices.html

Dental work required | Private Prices | NHS Prices *
Apiectomy|£401|£198.0
Braces|£1050|£198.0
Bridge|£562|N/A
Cancellation fee|£39|N/A
Combined Treatments|£366|N/A
Dental Crown|£375|£198.0
Dental Examination|£44|£16.2
Dentures|£448|£198.0
First Consultation|£53|£16.2
Hygiene Clean|£70|N/A
Implants|£1075|N/A
Large tooth filling|£105|£121.3
Root canal|£350|£198.0
Sedated tooth removal|£144|£44.6
Small tooth filling|£78|£44.6
Tooth Extraction|£91|N/A
Tooth Scale and Polish|£47|£16.2
Veneer|£342|N/A
Whitening|£304|N/A
Wisdom tooth extraction|£176|N/A
X-ray|£29|£16.2

Why were these dentist opting out of such a wonderful system?

At the time my original dentist opted to do mostly private work it was because he could make twice the money for less work. I.e. Opportunity and greed.

 

[Toke]

So if our healthcare is so bad, why did the people from other countries (famous Italian singer, Jordans pres, etc) choose to come here instead of their current system?

There is general agreement that the us have great healthcare for the people who can afford the best.
But that is not terribly relevant for the population at large. They would be better of with a tax paid system instead of going through an insurance company.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

So if our healthcare is so bad, why did the people from other countries (famous Italian singer, Jordans pres, etc) choose to come here instead of their current system?

<snip>

Because all those people are very wealthy and can afford to access the best healthcare in the world, wherever it may be located.

Are you very wealthy?