Stossel Solves the Health Crisis with Capitalism

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Helllooooooooo JREF!!!! I started this thread with the hope of brainstorming some ideas that might help reduce the cost of health care spending in the U.S. The only catch is that is needs to be reduced without switching to a Universal Health Care system.

This Stossel video has some good ideas to help lower costs, and I was wondering what others here thought of his Capitalist approach to the problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXF...ti.com/videos/youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I

Plus, Michael Moore and Stossel have it out and Stossel calls Moore a fatty. Check it out and please leave any thoughts.

 

[kellyb]

No audio on my pc. Can you give me a synopsis?

 

[Free Thinkr]

Stossel, lulz.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

No audio on my pc. Can you give me a synopsis?

Yes. Basically the programme is advocating a free market system, with patients shopping around for the best quality healthcare they can afford. The several obvious problems associated with this were not mentioned, just relentless inappropriate analogies to buying cars and food and how competition lowers the price of everything being given.

It employed the usual right-wing tactic of inducing fear of a universal system, reinforcing American stereotypes of the Canadian and European systems. This included showing huge queues for dental treatment in the UK and doctors on strike in France and Germany. No doubt the suitably frightened American viewer would be left thinking the problems highlighted happen on a regular basis.

 

[oggiesnr]

Can someone give me back the time I've just wasted spent watching that rubbish?

The state of US health is an example of imperfect markets and vested interests at work. There is no answer other than UHC or stricter Government controls which are not permitted as answers by the OP.

To steal an ongoing argument from another thread, I'm off for my next bout of taxation funded but free at the point of delivery chemo tomorrow safe in the knowledge that I'm getting good care and I don't have to worry about insurance or bankruptcy.

Be well

Steve

 

[Toke]

Maybe the problem is that there are not enough different insurance policy options to fit american´s individual needs.

Last I heard there were no more than 50.000 different ones in Michigan. That seems completely insufficient for the number of people there.
Why can´t they get individual options?

 

[kellyb]

Yes. Basically the programme is advocating a free market system, with patients shopping around for the best quality healthcare they can afford.

I'm confused. That's what we are already doing.

 

[Toke]

I'm confused. That's what we are already doing

.

Well, you are obviusly not doing it enough.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

It employed the usual right-wing tactic of inducing fear of a universal system, reinforcing American stereotypes of the Canadian and European systems. This included showing huge queues for dental treatment in the UK and doctors on strike in France and Germany. No doubt the suitably frightened American viewer would be left thinking the problems highlighted happen on a regular basis.

Frightened??? You're an easy scare, are ya? Was anything Stossel said a lie?

 

[Toke]

Frightened??? You're an easy scare, are ya? Was anything Stossel said a lie?

My best guess is that he have misrepresented reality, to cover the cold economic facts of how you run healthcare for a whole country.
Without spending too much and without poor or expensively ill people going without care.

I will be back from work in 4 weeks and able to wacht video over the internet. If you are still interrested then I will see it.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I'm confused. That's what we are already doing.

The programme was not meant to educate American viewers, merely frighten them and reaffirm their irrational prejudices.

E.g., "Imagine how people would behave if they had food insurance?" and "The best car socialism ever produced was the Trabant."

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

My best guess is that he have misrepresented reality, to cover the cold economic facts of how you run healthcare for a whole country.
Without spending too much and without poor or expensively ill people going without care.

I will be back from work in 4 weeks and able to wacht video over the internet. If you are still interrested then I will see it.

I would love for someone to point out what was a misrepresentation.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

The programme was not meant to educate American viewers, merely frighten them and reaffirm their irrational prejudices.

There you go again with the whole frightening nonsense. Who the hell gets scared by Stossel? Was anything in the piece not true?

E.g., "Imagine how people would behave if they had food insurance?" and "The best car socialism ever produced was the Trabant."

Were those points invalid? Are they lies?

 

[Toke]

Misrepresentation come in many forms.

Have you heard of the AB that were written in the logbook for showing up drunk for duty.
The next day he wrote in the log "The captain were sober today".

Try look at it again, read post #4 and look for selective reporting and handwaving.

 

[quixotecoyote]

stanley: Have you considered that you may have adopted capitalism as an ideology?

I just remember you as part of a decent give-and-take in the universal health care thread, where you acknowledged several problems in the existing system and reasons why a universal system could alleviate them, but then I pop over here and see that someone said "capitalist" and it was like a magic word that reverted you fully to your original position.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Frightened??? You're an easy scare, are ya? Was anything Stossel said a lie?

It was taken out of context.

With respect to the queues for NHS dentists in the UK, this was caused by dentists opting out of the NHS and only taking private patients.

Clearly the people queuing should have just shopped around the large number of private dentists in their area, as Stossel is recommending Americans do for all their medical services.

I wonder if Dick Cheney shopped around for each of his heart bypasses?

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

No audio on my pc. Can you give me a synopsis?

It wasn't quite as scary as it was made out to be. Basically Stossel talks to people and throws around some ideas on why things are getting so expensive. He goes over a few ideas to help lower cost of medical care for everyone. The program also shows how Michael Moore makes a ton of dubious claims in Sicko, and Moore and Stossel meet up for a showdown in the middle (resulting in Moore looking foolish as usual).

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

Were those points invalid? Are they lies?

There were either totally irrelevant to the issue of healthcare (Trabant) or tried to equate two tasks which have very different requirements and problems (shopping for food and shopping for healthcare).

 

[Toke]

Michael Moore is good at selective reporting. Is Stossel any better?

What ideas?
Free marked is basicly what you got now, and not that succesfull. Does he want more of the same, goverment out of the way?

 

[kellyb]

E.g., "Imagine how people would behave if they had food insurance?" and "The best car socialism ever produced was the Trabant."

Were those points invalid? Are they lies?

I don't understand. What actually would happen if people had food insurance? And...the car thing...the British make cars, right??? Explain those two points to me like I'm a 5 year old coz I'm lost.