Squib Timing

[boloboffin]

Puffs from WTC 1 were even observed when WTC 2 was struck by the aircraft. These observations confirm that even minor overpressures were transmitted through the towers and forced smoke and debris from the building.

They weren't kidding, and they understated the case out of respect. In discussing this issue over at Democratic Underground, a truther posted a link to a "view of the South Tower strike you haven't seen before" without a single ounce of warning. I clicked over and saw to my utter horror that the South Tower strike shook loose at least three people from the North Tower.

Another example of squibs the truthers use is puffs of smoke along the upper southwest corner of 7 World Trade. These "squibs" are escaping from the damaged area of the corner clearly seen in other photographs. It is simply debris jetting out of the damaged corner while the progressive collapse is occuring inside the facade.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Another example of squibs the truthers use is puffs of smoke along the upper southwest corner of 7 World Trade. These "squibs" are escaping from the damaged area of the corner clearly seen in other photographs. It is simply debris jetting out of the damaged corner while the progressive collapse is occuring inside the facade.

The "squibs" you refer to on WTC7 come from the southwest corner. Shortly after the whole building begins falling, we see expulsions coming from that corner, one after the other, proceeding upwards, in sequence, with about .2 seconds in between each.

The upper floors are all dropping, they do not appear to be moving relative to each other, not even a little.

If not a demolition sequence, what exactly do you imagine is happening on the southweat corner of 7? Gravy has said it is debris flapping in the wind..

 

[twinstead]

The "squibs" you refer to on WTC7 come from the southwest corner. Shortly after the whole building begins falling, we see expulsions coming from that corner, one after the other, proceeding upwards, in sequence, with about .2 seconds in between each.

The upper floors are all dropping, they do not appear to be moving relative to each other, not even a little.

If not a demolition sequence, what exactly do you imagine is happening on the southweat corner of 7? Gravy has said it is debris flapping in the wind.

Interesting. I've never seen a video of an actual demolition where the 'squibs' go off "shortly after the whole building begins falling". It usually is a series of loud, sharp cracks and flashes of light, then a slight pause, and then gravity takes care of the rest and the building collapses.

so-called 'squibs' jetting out from the windows as the building is collapsing internally looks more like compressed air than demolition charges. But then again, I'm no expert in demolitions like you are, huh troothydude? I could be mistaken.

 

[Roger_Harris]

The "squibs" you refer to on WTC7 come from the southwest corner. Shortly after the whole building begins falling, we see expulsions coming from that corner, one after the other, proceeding upwards, in sequence, with about .2 seconds in between each.

... which would be totally unnecessary for a "controlled demolition." In case you hadn't noticed, that sucker is already coming down. Your "squibs" have been beat to death, TS; tiime to move along to something else.

 

[CurtC]

If not a demolition sequence, what exactly do you imagine is happening on the southweat corner of 7? Gravy has said it is debris flapping in the wind..

He said that? Where/when?

Did you notice that that corner of WTC7 was heavily damaged when viewed from the other side (upper southwest corner)?

As the building starts falling, air is squeezed out of it through any hole available. Each floor at that location had a big, ready-to-go hole.

Why did it progress upwards? The collapse was happening down low, so the overpressure propagated upwards.

 

[Kent1]

He said that? Where/when?

Did you notice that that corner of WTC7 was heavily damaged when viewed from the other side (upper southwest corner)?

As the building starts falling, air is squeezed out of it through any hole available. Each floor at that location had a big, ready-to-go hole.

Why did it progress upwards? The collapse was happening down low, so the overpressure propagated upwards.

Actually there is nothing jeting from that corner at all.
The black you see on the video is the broken windows. The smudge you see to the right of the black marks is just video artifacting.
You can confirm this by watching two videos.
First a higher res shot of WTC7 of the same video shown by Jones etc.
http://www.knowordie.co.uk/WTC7.avi

Second, the CBS video.

While in the CBS video you don't get a good shot of the corner, you can see that IF there were debris was coming out you should still be able to see it some sort of air/smoke push.
The skyline is illuminating all the smoke patterns coming out of the right hand side yet we see no evidence of "squibs" or ejections.

http://www.debunking911.com/wtc7cbs.wmv

Also see:
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_squibs.html and http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm

As for the timing, Jones got that wrong also....http://www.911myths.com/html/squib_timing.html

 

[VespaGuy]

Observe that the expulsions of smoke and debris are occurring well below the main collapse front.

TS - do you have an photos of one of these "squibs" going off prior to the collapse, like the way they do in a controlled demolition? There's tons of footage from that day to dig through, do you have any footage of a "squib" immediately preceeding the collapse?

 

[realitybites]

TS - do you have an photos of one of these "squibs" going off prior to the collapse, like the way they do in a controlled demolition? There's tons of footage from that day to dig through, do you have any footage of a "squib" immediately preceeding the collapse?

Preferably one that makes a sound too.

Like "BOOM!"

 

[boloboffin]

If not a demolition sequence, what exactly do you imagine is happening on the southweat corner of 7? Gravy has said it is debris flapping in the wind..

Umm, dude? In the very paragraph of mine you quoted, I said:

It is simply debris jetting out of the damaged corner while the progressive collapse is occuring inside the facade.

So English is your second language?

 

[LashL]

Umm, dude? In the very paragraph of mine you quoted, I said:



So English is your second language?

Reality is certainly not his/her/its first language, that's for sure.







P.S. Boloboffin, you probably know BS1234 by another name at DU, btw

 

[Belz...]

Is this possible?

Would you expect anything else ? Really ?

 

[Belz...]

Still, your point is well taken. Explaining the total amount of destruction is very difficult, even with the presence of explosives. Without explosives, it is impossible.

Explaining something that doesn't exist is an exercise in futility.

 

[Belz...]

All these analogies to potato guns, bicycle pumps, etc. are evocative, but they just don't match reality in this case. First of all, you have huge quantities of material being ejected out of the building on all four sides at the "collapse" front. Whatever "piston" you imagine pressing down on the air must be sealed off from this, otherwise the air would just go where all that other air is going.

This means that whole floors have to fall at once, below the visible "collapse" front, because if only part of a floor fell, the compressed air below the falling floor would rush up and around to fill in the low pressure above the falling floor. Remember, we're only dealing with one atmosphere of pressure here (absent explosives that is), thus any local overpressure should be matched by a corresponding underpressure somewhere else.

So you imagine whole floors dropping ahead of the collapse front, and compressing the air below it, forcing it into elevator shafts and air conditioning vents. This increases pressure in the elevator shafts and air conditioner vents, which distributes that air throughout the system.

Are you guys suggesting that the entire tower below the collapse front had its air pressure raised, that the whole thing was inflated like a tire, and that those two windows on the whatever floor popped because they were the weakest point in an airtight vessel? Is this what you guys are trying to get me to believe?

Just out of curiousity, what is the velocity of an RDX shaped charge at 100 feet?

Oh, golly. You should have gone beyond kindergarten.

 

[uk_dave]

I never thought I'd see a 'fiend god' say "golly"

 

[Belz...]

There's only ONE of those.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Sigh. You forgot to add "I think". Well, just because it's so easy, I'll take you on here:

All these analogies to potato guns, bicycle pumps, etc. are evocative, but they just don't match reality in this case. First of all, you have huge quantities of material being ejected out of the building on all four sides at the "collapse" front. Whatever "piston" you imagine pressing down on the air must be sealed off from this, otherwise the air would just go where all that other air is going.

The material being ejected is moving, right? It moves sideways, out of the building. How does it do that? It does that by being pushed by the expelled air. How does the air manage to push things? By pressure. Whenever you see a sitiation where air is moving and pushing things, there is a pressure differential. Thus, the observation that "huge amounts" (a relative concept) of debris is being expelled from the collapse zone is a sure sign that there is a raised air pressure there. This pressure pushes air in any direction available to it. Capisco?

This means that whole floors have to fall at once, below the visible "collapse" front, because if only part of a floor fell, the compressed air below the falling floor would rush up and around to fill in the low pressure above the falling floor.

No, it only means that there must be an overpressure in the collapse zone, as evidenced by the ejected material. The floors don't fall alone, there is a growing amount of building remains on top of them.

That said, I think it is naive to assume that once the collapse progressed, floors would stay intact till the collapse zone reached them. The still-standing part of the building would be transmitting the force of the collapse downwards, and some compression and collapse was probably preceeding the actual destruction zone.

Remember, we're only dealing with one atmosphere of pressure here (absent explosives that is), thus any local overpressure should be matched by a corresponding underpressure somewhere else.

It was. You can see in the videos how there is a giant downdraft or slipstream above the descending top of the building.

As for "only" one atmosphere, try to calculate the pressure of just 0.1 bar on a 10ft by 10ft window. You'll be surprised.

(I recon you may have a problem with math, so I did it for you, it's appr. 9 tons)

So you imagine whole floors dropping ahead of the collapse front, and compressing the air below it,

No, we observe (by the ejected debris and by simple logic) that the pressure in the collapse zone is raised, and we infer that this pressure will propagate through any available vents into the remaining building.

forcing it into elevator shafts and air conditioning vents. This increases pressure in the elevator shafts and air conditioner vents, which distributes that air throughout the system.

Yes.

Are you guys suggesting that the entire tower below the collapse front had its air pressure raised, that the whole thing was inflated like a tire, and that those two windows on the whatever floor popped because they were the weakest point in an airtight vessel? Is this what you guys are trying to get me to believe?

No.

ETA: Nobody tries to make you believe anything. We are pointing out to you how your present beliefs are wrong.

Just out of curiousity, what is the velocity of an RDX shaped charge at 100 feet?

As long as it acts like a shaped charge, it is supersonic. At some distance, depending on the size of the charge (and some other factors), it will slow down to normal convection speed. What debris it has accelerated will continue for a considerable distance at rifle bullet speed, however.

Hans

 

[Housefly]

Out of curiosity, if no windows were broken on a floor, does it make sense that only one would blow out from the air pressure? Or are these "squibs" more likely from windows that were already broken?

 

[WildCat]

Out of curiosity, if no windows were broken on a floor, does it make sense that only one would blow out from the air pressure? Or are these "squibs" more likely from windows that were already broken?

Actually I think that the "squibs" just so happen to be precisely where vents to the outside were located on the mechanical floors. Funny that, eh?

 

[Hellbound]

Out of curiosity, if no windows were broken on a floor, does it make sense that only one would blow out from the air pressure? Or are these "squibs" more likely from windows that were already broken?

Actually I think that the "squibs" just so happen to be precisely where vents to the outside were located on the mechanical floors. Funny that, eh?

Just to add to the answer:

Once the pressure has a route to the outside, a path to equalize, it lowers the pressure in the remaining structure. Think of trying to inflate a tire. You can build up a high pressure inside. No, poke a small hole in the tire. You can still build up pressure, but it takes longer and the pressure isn't maintained. Now, cut out a larger hole. And larger. And larger. Eventually, you reach a point where the pressure decrease from air escaping from the tire is greater than the increase in pressure from the air you're putting in. And this will be accomplished by a hole that is quite a bit smaller than the total surface area of the tire.

While not an exact analogy, the principle is the same. The increase in pressure would "break" the weakest areas first, such as large windows. There's some evidence to suggest that the primary reason for the specific windows in querstion to break was because they were on main hallways (direct route to the core area where elevator and air shafts were primarily) and were broken by debris blown down the halls. In any case, once you get these holes, you have a route for the increasing pressure to be released, whic reduces the pressure in the rest of the floor.

 

[Big Les]

a Squib is a cartrige loaded with insufficient powder to get the bullet all the way out of the barrel. It therefore stops somewhere between breech and muzzle.
A squib, therefore, is not an energetic explosion--it is a very weak one.
(although gun powder doesn't actually explode--it burns very, very, fast.)

Yes, good point rwguinn - what the hell is with the use of the word "squib"?? Neither your definition, nor the common one of a special effects explosive charge, has anything to do with what Twatseeker is going on about.

At least get your terminology right!