Spirit communication

[I Ratant]

...
IOW ... you would never have told that story. I would have never told any of mine. We would have never had this discussion. I would have never had the idea to "listen to my inner voice" 10 years ago, etc etc. There might still be woo of course, but we've reduced it. But by merely speaking about it, are we not perpetuating the very thing we don't even believe in?

BTW I Ratant ... no pressure if you drop the conversation. I could go on for awhile, since I have a huge interest in the effects of prophecy/signs/ and the way we decide to do what we do concerning "woo". I'm not so much interested in the origin and cause, but the effect. So if you want to call it good, no worries on my end. I can be long winded, I know that

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I have had no reason to listen to my "inner voice" for anything, other than perhaps not doing something because previous experience has shown me that doing that (whatever it is) is or can be counterproductive.
But there's many people who do have those "second thoughts" as it were, and pay them much more heed than the thought really requires.
Discussing the invalidity or lack of connection to reality can be of assistance, and let these people let their common sense override the path the "second thought" may take them on.
There's predators out there that will seek out the confused and try to take them for all they're worth.. witness religions.

 

[Trent Wray]

The short answer I have (and I always reserve the right to be wrong) is we just may be hard-wired that way and just aren't conscious of it. We are on some level. Perhaps the way we evolved gives us these "feelings" to help us avoid behaviours that could be harmful, or to protect us from something that could harm us. Instincts, I guess. We aren't always aware of them when they kick in.

The more we grow in knowledge the more our minds want to rationalize and understand things, even seemingly or truly trivial things. I think we are, again, hard-wired that way. It may be an evolutionary trait to help us survive and grow and a species.

What do you think?

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I have had no reason to listen to my "inner voice" for anything, other than perhaps not doing something because previous experience has shown me that doing that (whatever it is) is or can be counterproductive.
But there's many people who do have those "second thoughts" as it were, and pay them much more heed than the thought really requires.
Discussing the invalidity or lack of connection to reality can be of assistance, and let these people let their common sense override the path the "second thought" may take them on.
There's predators out there that will seek out the confused and try to take them for all they're worth.. witness religions.

I'm addressing both posts ---

I think we are, more or less, hardwired to want to understand our world and events etc and so forth.

I still don't understand though, why we might sit around and think heavily on philosophical ideas, or we'll let what the boss did at work drive us crazy for days while we ruminate on it, or we'll go over every angle concerning how electrons behave, or we'll scrutinize another person's relationship, or every move that we make courting another person, etc and so forth. But when we scrutinize THESE TYPES OF EVENTS in particular, there is "something" that makes us either go off the deep end, or desire to stay away from it completely.

Has religion/superstition ruined the idea of examining those events from a tabula rasa? Is it just impossible to discuss something like this without saying, "I don't believe in religious woo. It causes damage." Why do these things have to be religious woo? We listen to our intuition sometimes, sometimes we don't. But why does THIS TYPE OF aspect in particular, concerning our intuition, get such a strong reaction on both extremes?

 

[I Ratant]

...
Has religion/superstition ruined the idea of examining those events from a tabula rasa? Is it just impossible to discuss something like this without saying, "I don't believe in religious woo. It causes damage." Why do these things have to be religious woo? We listen to our intuition sometimes, sometimes we don't. But why does THIS TYPE OF aspect in particular, concerning our intuition, get such a strong reaction on both extremes?

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Experiences with religions should/does cause a negative response when all is considered.
The innumerable deaths due to factions fighting over doctrine for one, and the down-right suicidal dogmas that people will follow to their deaths as another.
As religious thoughts are merely brain farts, how can these be given the status of being worth dying for?
Whether the Lord's Prayer ended with "For Thine is the kingdom and power and glory forever"... or didn't, was worth dying for.
Why?
Refusing medical intervention is worth dying for.
Why?
Killing oneself and one's entire family.
Why?

 

[Trent Wray]

.
Experiences with religions should/does cause a negative response when all is considered.
The innumerable deaths due to factions fighting over doctrine for one, and the down-right suicidal dogmas that people will follow to their deaths as another.
As religious thoughts are merely brain farts, how can these be given the status of being worth dying for?
Whether the Lord's Prayer ended with "For Thine is the kingdom and power and glory forever"... or didn't, was worth dying for.
Why?
Refusing medical intervention is worth dying for.
Why?
Killing oneself and one's entire family.
Why?

But that's what I'm saying. Taking the religious angle out of those events .... what does that leave to explore other than "nothing"?

Take your flashes about a hollywood star or whatever. What's religious about that? Nothing. So why can't that be examined further in a non-religious light? And then take finding the scriptural trash on the street. Just because it involved scripture, why does it have to be looked at in a religious light? You see what I'm saying? I still don't see why those types of events you describe get such a strong reaction of "woo -- don't go there" or "woo --- jump head first into omen oblivion". You see what I'm saying? Where is the critical examination of it from a standpoint that requires neither fear of going insane or going insane?

 

[I Ratant]

But that's what I'm saying. Taking the religious angle out of those events .... what does that leave to explore other than "nothing"?

Take your flashes about a hollywood star or whatever. What's religious about that? Nothing. So why can't that be examined further in a non-religious light? And then take finding the scriptural trash on the street. Just because it involved scripture, why does it have to be looked at in a religious light? You see what I'm saying? I still don't see why those types of events you describe get such a strong reaction of "woo -- don't go there" or "woo --- jump head first into omen oblivion". You see what I'm saying? Where is the critical examination of it from a standpoint that requires neither fear of going insane or going insane?

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Pastor Paley went all woo-ish over that watch he found on the heath, connecting the idea of the designer of the watch to the idea of the creator as designer.
That is kinda the base line for lots of signs/portents/premonitions/auguries.
An out-of-place encounter that can be spun into reams of fantasy.
We humans can make those leaps of "faith" or connect unconnectable dots easily.
I find it fascinating when it happens to me.
I recently had a dream about a 6-rotored helicopter, with all 6 independent rotors spinning around a common shaft.
I'm trying to finger out the control system that would make that remotely practical, as all other co-axial helicopters have only two common-center shafts.
Hardly a premonition or portent, but it is interesting... to me.

 

[Trent Wray]

.
Pastor Paley went all woo-ish over that watch he found on the heath, connecting the idea of the designer of the watch to the idea of the creator as designer.
That is kinda the base line for lots of signs/portents/premonitions/auguries.
An out-of-place encounter that can be spun into reams of fantasy.
We humans can make those leaps of "faith" or connect unconnectable dots easily.
I find it fascinating when it happens to me.
I recently had a dream about a 6-rotored helicopter, with all 6 independent rotors spinning around a common shaft.
I'm trying to finger out the control system that would make that remotely practical, as all other co-axial helicopters have only two common-center shafts.
Hardly a premonition or portent, but it is interesting... to me.

IOW ... the significance of the events are relevant to the POV of the one they happened to. It is essentially under the "rule of revelation". It pertains to you, since it happened to you and only you, and whatever you choose to do with it thenceforth is immeasurable and will always be subjective. Yes?

 

[Minarvia]

I'm addressing both posts ---

I think we are, more or less, hardwired to want to understand our world and events etc and so forth.

I still don't understand though, why we might sit around and think heavily on philosophical ideas, or we'll let what the boss did at work drive us crazy for days while we ruminate on it, or we'll go over every angle concerning how electrons behave, or we'll scrutinize another person's relationship, or every move that we make courting another person, etc and so forth. But when we scrutinize THESE TYPES OF EVENTS in particular, there is "something" that makes us either go off the deep end, or desire to stay away from it completely.

Has religion/superstition ruined the idea of examining those events from a tabula rasa? Is it just impossible to discuss something like this without saying, "I don't believe in religious woo. It causes damage." Why do these things have to be religious woo? We listen to our intuition sometimes, sometimes we don't. But why does THIS TYPE OF aspect in particular, concerning our intuition, get such a strong reaction on both extremes?

Okay, sorry, I have to put in the idea that I may be not understanding any of this at all. But what the heck, I'll try.

How about when man was a much simpler creature? Hunting and gathering and mainly occupied from sunup to sundown with just surviving as their goal. Gradually, as man learned new techniques he spent less time having to just perform acts simply to survive another day.

Well, we all have brains. (I think) While we are awake our brains just don't let us alone. Well, they don't while we sleep, either, but that is beside the point right now. Our brains needed to do something while they were not occupied with the former tasks of commanding the body to only acts pertaining to survival.

They began to think. Well, on what? On what was around them. Hey, why is my mate over speaking to Ogg? Is she up to something? And on and on.

Now our brains our evolved enough to think abstractly and cannot stop. They are always thinking. Successful cultural memes such as religion and codes of behavior and law play into how they think and what conclusions they come to. Religion is a huge part of society, so I think it does "piss in the pool" in a way that taints or influences it whether for good or ill. Religion is so old that is has become such a strong influence in most cultures that it is hard to shake.

Does the average man still, on an unconscious level, take security in religion because it is part of, as Jung said, our collective unconsciousness and in the past it helped people unite and survive? And as people become more individual and unique and not just parts of a functioning group with only a few tasks to perform, they can now choose to either utilize it in their thinking or try to toss it out the window and see what happens?

But even brains need to relax, perhaps. Maybe that's why entertainment and other peoples' business is of such interest to us. It takes us away from the heavy stuff once in a while.

But we still have that old hard-wired instinct for what is best for us. Such as diving into a relationship or situation or staying the heck away. I think the more individualized humans become the more they scrutinize themselves. That's why we obsess over the boss' comment or take things so much to heart. Or tell them to piss off and go and get a beer and turn on the tv. Still the old hard-wired "fight or flight." And it is one extreme to another. Yes or no.

Okay, I'll dare hit the "submit reply" button. We'll see if I regret it when I read the post in it's entirety now! Hmmmm...did I actually address the question? Did I understand it? Do I make sense...oh, hell. Click the darned button.

 

[I Ratant]

Good one!
My aerodynamics professor used to say "Thinking is painful".
So when "the thinking has been done for", as the Mormons say, that's something one need not be concerned about, just follow the carrot.
Religions supply all the answers after all.
It just requires "faith" in following what the answer appears to be.

 

[RSLancastr]

I receive unambiguous messages from an angel every day! Things like

"Go get the mail!"

"It's my turn on the computer!"

"Eat your lunch!"

And of course,

"No!!"

Sigh. But she's still my angel, and always will be...

 

[Trent Wray]

Okay, sorry, I have to put in the idea that I may be not understanding any of this at all. But what the heck, I'll try.

How about when man was a much simpler creature? Hunting and gathering and mainly occupied from sunup to sundown with just surviving as their goal. Gradually, as man learned new techniques he spent less time having to just perform acts simply to survive another day.

Well, we all have brains. (I think) While we are awake our brains just don't let us alone. Well, they don't while we sleep, either, but that is beside the point right now. Our brains needed to do something while they were not occupied with the former tasks of commanding the body to only acts pertaining to survival.

They began to think. Well, on what? On what was around them. Hey, why is my mate over speaking to Ogg? Is she up to something? And on and on.

Now our brains our evolved enough to think abstractly and cannot stop. They are always thinking. Successful cultural memes such as religion and codes of behavior and law play into how they think and what conclusions they come to. Religion is a huge part of society, so I think it does "piss in the pool" in a way that taints or influences it whether for good or ill. Religion is so old that is has become such a strong influence in most cultures that it is hard to shake.

Does the average man still, on an unconscious level, take security in religion because it is part of, as Jung said, our collective unconsciousness and in the past it helped people unite and survive? And as people become more individual and unique and not just parts of a functioning group with only a few tasks to perform, they can now choose to either utilize it in their thinking or try to toss it out the window and see what happens?

But even brains need to relax, perhaps. Maybe that's why entertainment and other peoples' business is of such interest to us. It takes us away from the heavy stuff once in a while.

But we still have that old hard-wired instinct for what is best for us. Such as diving into a relationship or situation or staying the heck away. I think the more individualized humans become the more they scrutinize themselves. That's why we obsess over the boss' comment or take things so much to heart. Or tell them to piss off and go and get a beer and turn on the tv. Still the old hard-wired "fight or flight." And it is one extreme to another. Yes or no.

Okay, I'll dare hit the "submit reply" button. We'll see if I regret it when I read the post in it's entirety now! Hmmmm...did I actually address the question? Did I understand it? Do I make sense...oh, hell. Click the darned button.

Okay first of all, I think I would give Ogg a beat down and go mega-fauna on his arse.

Secondly, I think this response is actually getting closer to what I want to know. Let me explain.

You're more or less describing bits and pieces of evolution, adaptation, etc. One of the outcomes of the evolution of our own species is our brain and the increase in it's potential to perform "higher functions."

I have not personally decided yet whether these higher functions are beneficial or detrimental to us. On the one hand, they seem to help us advantageously over our environment. But on the other, there is a cost we pay. Part of that cost, imo, is unneccessary amounts of knowledge and mental illness, stress, arguably the destruction of habitat and parts of the planet, etc and so forth. I wonder at times if our high functions are evolutionarily built in self-destruct commands to terminate our species LOL. And of course, the other side of the coin is that we are evolving towards increasingly beneficial lifestyles and life cycles for our species. We are "extreme examples of success".

So, imo, depending on the pov one takes ... will determine how we view things such as this topic. The "synchronicity" and meaning behind events and the like.

Taking the religious/spiritual context out of it completely ---- IOW, removing the piss from the pool ---- we are left with the pool. Our brains and how they grow and learn and experience life. If some of our analytical adaptations are detrimental, then those should not be encouraged but rather ignored. If they are beneficial, then they should be explored and possibly encouraged.

So looking at these types of instances, is there an advantage to finding meaning in the coincidences or not? Is our brain trying to promote something beneficial or detrimental for us? How would we be able to tell the difference? Many of our actions are not cut and dry .... at times what is detrimental momentarily becomes beneficial in the long run. And vice versa.

But is our brain needing to see these types of events because of evolutionary adaptations that will serve us for the better, or the opposite?

And this is the core of what I want to understand. There seems to be a knee jerk reaction in us one way or another. It doesn't seem to be neutral for us. Who wins the football game on Sunday may or may not be neutral. But finding meaning behind things such as that usually get a "woo or no woo" reaction. It's rarely a neutral thing. And of course, I think religion becomes a focussed view because it has pissed all over the place and tainted perhaps many of man's attempts to understand phenomena and events and offered half-butt fantasy as place-holder explanations.

So again ... remove the piss and woo, and WHY do our brains react this way? And at what point should we stop examining the "carrot"?

If I'm stretching the conversation into dead-horse oblivion, no worries ... I can chill and let it go

 

[Minarvia]

I don't want to chill and let it go. I simply have no clue. I had a post prepared and then realized that it made no sense, really. Basically, I don't think our brains can attempt to aim for either a good or a bad outcome. But people do make decisions and things do occur to good and bad ends. For the entire pool, sometimes.

As for attempting to find meaning in co-incidences, is that just a brain entertaining itself or is it aiming for something? Well, I'm no philosopher, I guess. I hope one pops in here and helps out!

As for your question, when do we stop examining the carrot? Never. I don't think our brains will ever rest. They need something to do, for whatever reason, and there will always be another carrot, imo.

But now I second guess. Maybe our brains, we, do aim for an end. After all there are active zealots, pacifists, those who don't give a damn...

Do I make any sense at all? Am I understanding this at all?

Okay, next poster, ahem...pop in and help me?

 

[Trent Wray]

I receive unambiguous messages from an angel every day! Things like

"Go get the mail!"

"It's my turn on the computer!"

"Eat your lunch!"

And of course,

"No!!"

Sigh. But she's still my angel, and always will be...

You sound "angel-whipped" LOL

j/k

 

[RSLancastr]

You sound "angel-whipped" LOL

j/k

Trent, when stuck in a wheelchair and utterly reliant on an angel for nearly everything in life, it's difficult not to be angel-whipped. But yeah, I was even before the stroke.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Trentwray- was the term you were seeking "second sight"?
That's a common name in the UK for the sort of precognitive visions (often of a death) that you describe.

 

[Trent Wray]

Trentwray- was the term you were seeking "second sight"?
That's a common name in the UK for the sort of precognitive visions (often of a death) that you describe.

No .... I think I remembered now that it was the term "walk-in", but it was being used differently than the context I was seeing it in here.

I think the TV show I saw it in was an X-Files episode years ago (don't laugh! Well, okay, you can laugh ).

Trent, when stuck in a wheelchair and utterly reliant on an angel for nearly everything in life, it's difficult not to be angel-whipped. But yeah, I was even before the stroke.

Well, yeah, I can understand that .

And even aside from necessity, some angels are worth being whipped by regardless at times

 

[Minarvia]

You know, the title of this thread is now incorrect. Trent, why not rename it and see if it can be moved to R and P. It has totally changed direction and I think you'll get more input. "Spirit Communication" as a title give an entirely different impression of the subject matter than you/we here, are heading towards now.