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SOPA, change the implementation

Upchurch said:
Only in the doublespeak aspect of it, I suppose. This isn't being driven by political ideology. This is more of a power grab by certain corporations to control the masses.
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Of course. Saving the distances in the analogy. However, Politics and Corporations have become pretty close over time. I think they even overlap from time to time.
 
Axiom_Blade said:
The music industry is definitely behind this.
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You are? If you buy a CD you are just as much the "music business" as anyone else

Or do you mean the mythical cigar smoking limousine driving fatman?

I can promise you "studios" have nothing at all to do with this nor ANY power towards this of any sort
 
pipelineaudio said:
You are? If you buy a CD you are just as much the "music business" as anyone else
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Oh criminey. If you pay your taxes, does that make you part of the military-industrial complex?

I can promise you "studios" have nothing at all to do with this nor ANY power towards this of any sort
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How would you know? What does "recorded music & music production" mean, then?
In fact, it would be surprising if the RIAA were NOT a part of this. They've been working together with the MPAA to stomp out filesharing for a long time.
 
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Scroll down a bit on the page I linked earlier, and you find, under "Specific Organizations Supporting H.R.3261":

National Music Publishers' Association
American Federation of Musicians
Recording Industry Association of America
American Association of Independent Music
Universal Music Group Inc.
Warner Music Group
Christian Music Trade Association
Country Music Association
Country Music Television
EMI Christian Music Group
MCA Records
UMG Publishing Group
BMI

So, what exactly is your argument here?
 
Axiom_Blade said:
Scroll down a bit on the page I linked earlier, and you find, under "Specific Organizations Supporting H.R.3261":

National Music Publishers' Association
American Federation of Musicians
Recording Industry Association of America
American Association of Independent Music
Universal Music Group Inc.
Warner Music Group
Christian Music Trade Association
Country Music Association
Country Music Television
EMI Christian Music Group
MCA Records
UMG Publishing Group
BMI

So, what exactly is your argument here?
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Not a single one representing recording studios

I'd love to see how you could possibly string together a tale of what possible incentive a recording studio could even have for supporting this, much less having any sort of power to implement it

The only possible motivation would be to take a big picture long term look, in which case, IP protection would benefit studios, but nobody looks at it that way in any modern industry
 
pipelineaudio said:
You are? If you buy a CD you are just as much the "music business" as anyone else
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You lost your chance at presenting a reasonable argument right here.

There are actual lists of specific companies that have lobbied for these bills. There is no myth about it.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Not a single one representing recording studios
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Okay, fine...music companies and their trade organizations. What I was trying to get across is that the music industry is supporting it.
Why is this distinction so important to you?

I'd love to see how you could possibly string together a tale of what possible incentive a recording studio could even have for supporting this, much less having any sort of power to implement it
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What possible incentive do the RIAA or MPAA have? What sort of power do they have to implement it?
 
Axiom_Blade said:
Okay, fine...music companies and their trade organizations. What I was trying to get across is that the music industry is supporting it.
Why is this distinction so important to you?
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Because earlier in the thread "music studios" were claimed specifically. I called BS on it

Not that I'm accusing you of it, as you took the time to dig up some facts, but the freetard movement DOES "blame" recording studios for any perceived affront to individual freetards, and I and others have suffered quite a bit of costly and malicious vandalism from it

Just in case any freetards are listening:

Recording studios do NOT pass piracy laws
Recording studios are NOT the RIAA (not that there's anything wrong with being the RIAA)
Recording studios did NOT get your internet shut off
 
Axiom_Blade said:
Okay, fine...music companies and their trade organizations.
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Taking a closer look at your list I notice that "music companies and their trade organizations" is like saying Charles Barkley represents all blacks

I don't mean to be hammering on you, its just that this is a far deeper subject than cursory glances would indicate.

Conspicuously absent from any list that would be the music companies and trade organizations are the two biggest, and usually the only two that matter to 99% of the industry: AES and NAMM

On the other hand, it seems most of the publishing companies have gotten on board, both print and music publishing

I think this says a lot. Its true that piracy does hurt SPECIFIC guitar sales, but it sure doesnt seem to hurt guitar sales in general

Conversely, piracy DOES hurt publishers, going as far as to deprive them any source of revenue whatsoever, since their failure to protect their clients' content went out the window years ago, all they have are residuals and those are the pirates' main target
 
pipelineaudio said:
Not that I'm accusing you of it, as you took the time to dig up some facts, but the freetard movement DOES "blame" recording studios for any perceived affront to individual freetards, and I and others have suffered quite a bit of costly and malicious vandalism from it
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Ah, the "freetards", yes. As I understand it, a derogatory term for those people who are always whining about freedom ("freedom" + "retard").

I'd like to hear about this "costly and malicious vandalism"?
 
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pipelineaudio said:
Because earlier in the thread "music studios" were claimed specifically. I called BS on it

Not that I'm accusing you of it, as you took the time to dig up some facts, but the freetard movement DOES "blame" recording studios for any perceived affront to individual freetards, and I and others have suffered quite a bit of costly and malicious vandalism from it

Just in case any freetards are listening:

Recording studios do NOT pass piracy laws
Recording studios are NOT the RIAA (not that there's anything wrong with being the RIAA)
Recording studios did NOT get your internet shut off
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Gosh, "freetards". That instantly earned my sympathy. You sure do know how to win over people to your side!
 
Axiom_Blade said:
Ah, the "freetards", yes. As I understand it, a derogatory term for those people who are always whining about freedom ("freedom" + "retard").

I'd like to hear about this "costly and malicious vandalism"?
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I believe he is referring to lost revenue, as an actor i can provide a simple example.

In one film i was in i was to receive approximately 3% of the profits. On one website alone, said film received over 5000 views, and this isn't exactly a top grade film. If those people had legitimately purchased the film versus pirating it online, i would be entitled to profit, which i am not receiving due to them not purchasing the film.

The effects of piracy are not as ethereal as you think, there are a lot of working class actors , and usually these folks get paid a small amount " for sure" , and a percentage of the profit. Piracy takes money directly away from these people, myself included.
 
sadhatter said:
If those people had legitimately purchased the film versus pirating it online, i would be entitled to profit, which i am not receiving due to them not purchasing the film.
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If being the key word here. What are the odds that some guy who has thousands and thousands of movies on this disks has even watched your movie, though? This is the same argument that the MPAA and RIAA make. People download it because they can; that doesn't mean that they would've bought it, if they couldn't.
 
Thanks for the try at least people.

So if the bill is scrapped and a new one generated:
-should it include the ability to sanction the transfer of copyrighted material without permission?
 
So let me ask you this: If SOPA and PIPA and all these harsh laws were to become accepted and implemented, would this at least mean that scam sites such as www.usafis.org could be completely eradicated?

Because if they can't even guarantee that, then this law is in fact nothing but useless crap that does nothing except destroy the little freedom of speech we have.
 
sadhatter said:
I believe he is referring to lost revenue, as an actor i can provide a simple example.

In one film i was in i was to receive approximately 3% of the profits ...
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A percentage of the profits? Hollywood accounting is notoriously shady in that films never generate a profit, no matter how much revenue they take in, for those folks who have a slice of the profits.
 
Dancing David said:
Thanks for the try at least people.

So if the bill is scrapped and a new one generated:
-should it include the ability to sanction the transfer of copyrighted material without permission?
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Uh, and that would be needed why exactly? After all, there are already plenty of laws regarding copyright and what sanctions are possible if someone violates those laws.

There is absolutely no need for any new bill or law. use the existing ones first, and if for some strange reason they are not sufficient, then (and _only_ then) think about new ones.

The content industry has slept for far too long. Adapt or die, simple as that. Instead of making use of new technology, they actively fight it wherever they can. They harass and squeeze legit customers, that has to stop.

See, if i buy a DVD or BD or whatever, the first thing that is annoying are the previews of upcoming movies. Most of the time those can't be skipped. Then i am harassed by lot's of legal warnings, that can never be skipped at all. In fact, what they do is telling me "We think you are a criminal, bow down to our might or else...". After wasting lots of time, because nothing can be skipped, i am finally able to watch the movie. Well, if i am lucky, that is, and that insanely DRM crap decided to be OK with my setup.

Compare that to someone who downloads a movie: Click "play" and be happy!

Remember the DRM-trojan-horse debacle from Sony a while back? Where they put malware on audio CD's that infected computers? What about some laws against such things? Like, having them pay bucketloads of money for such stupidity.

What about some laws that gives the customer the guarantee that whatever media they buy, it will play just fine? What about some laws that prohibits those companies from restricting the way i can access the media and content that i have just bought? What about a law that allows me to circumvent that DRM crap so that i can make those things, which i legally bought, play fine on my system?

Now, _that_ would be something i would welcome. But no, not new laws that are designed purely to harass and limit the users even more. Keep that crap out of the internet, there is way too much potential for abuse. And just look at all the DRM crap to see that they _will_ abuse any and all "rights" they can get. Censoring sites on the internet just because some company says so? Without any legal proceedings beforehand? Without hard evidence?

Never!

Greetings,

Chris
 
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