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Simple climate change refutation challenge

mhaze said:
Anecdotical?

No, Arctic is is measured by satellite and is back to normal levels.

As for the unusually cold weather, I think not. Numerous areas are getting hit with coldest weather in decades, or 50 years in many cases. This is likely due to the largely dormant sun.
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Check here for the latest.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.jpg

Looks like it is already starting to decrease.

Kinda early don't you think?
 
mhaze said:
Okay, Alric, well, let's have it sort of your way. You go look at the current global temperature data, and give us a reasoned comment on the current global conditions. Colder, warmer, or about the same as the last decade, and why, based on satellite and ground temperatures. You asked for my opinion, you didn't like it, now let's hear yours.
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I vote for warmer... because the data says so.
 
Alric said:
Confirmation bias noted.

With data? Sure.
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You've homed in on regional data that supports your bias (Arctic data), ignored what I presented, the entire northern hemisphere snow cover data, and agree that you've confirmed your bias after receiving some data that confirmed your bias.

I'm glad we agree!
 
mhaze said:
http://www.icecap.us/

Sure, Go down middle column to this article. There are other summaries and reports, also, note the satellite temperatures currently. It's a bit chilly out there.

Feb 21, 2008
Snowcover Continues Well Above Normal through Mid-February By Joe D’Aleo, CCM
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Many models predict increased precipitation due to increased moisture in the atmosphere. Where I live we did have record snow precipitation. However, looking at this graph it looks like there is less precipitation until this year. Looking at the data in general looks like its all over the place and maybe a bad yearly predictor.

It might help if you discussed your point a little rather than just link to a headline.
 
Alric said:
Many models predict increased precipitation due to increased moisture in the atmosphere. Where I live we did have record snow precipitation. However, looking at this graph it looks like there is less precipitation until this year. Looking at the data in general looks like its all over the place and maybe a bad yearly predictor.

It might help if you discussed your point a little rather than just link to a headline.
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Sure. It's a cold winter, satellite readings of temperatures show a drop, the drop is the obvious reason for cold winter. It's a global phenomena, not regional.

Note this is only a comment about this winter, it's not any big statement about the last ten years or even the last several years. Spacially, I'm correct. Temporally, were we to draw conclusions about climate, that would be specious.
 
mhaze said:
You've homed in on regional data that supports your bias (Arctic data), ignored what I presented, the entire northern hemisphere snow cover data, and agree that you've confirmed your bias after receiving some data that confirmed your bias.

I'm glad we agree!
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This is quite good. You were asked about a link for the arctic ice. You responded with northern hemisphere snow cover and then complained that someone else had fallen prey to confirmation bias by homing in on a particular data set that confirmed his bias. Even though he actually posted about the arctic ice amd umm...you didn't.

At least I *think* that's what just happened. I might be wrong, I am just skimming these threads at the moment.
 
I had the impression that Alric's response to the posted links (start with 512) latched on to being critical of stories about regional cold. Right now there are a lot of news stories about regional cold areas. I post a NH snow cover chart, he does not like it, Bob posts a Arctic sea ice chart, he does like it.
 
mhaze said:
I had the impression that Alric's response to the posted links (start with 512) latched on to being critical of stories about regional cold. Right now there are a lot of news stories about regional cold areas. I post a NH snow cover chart, he does not like it, Bob posts a Arctic sea ice chart, he does like it.
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Also, keep in mind you stated that arctic ice levels are back to normal. Which is all over a number of blogs. But, the chart I posted shows that although the ice areas are back to within the average of the last three years, they are still short of the average for the last 30 years.
 
I certainly agree with you on this based on the graph you presented and without further research, that Arctic ice "back to normal" refers to the last several years and not the last 30 years. But this begs two interesting questions:

1. What is "normal" for Arctic ice?
2. Why do JREF believers in AGW repeatedly fail to remember the many times on this forum that studies by NASA have been posted clearly showing the recent summer's Arctic ice retreat was due to unusual air currents?

Of these, #1 is a knowable unknown. Like I could drag up studies from 1950 onwards or 1750 onwards.

#2, though......
 
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mhaze said:
...studies by NASA have been posted clearly showing the recent summer's Arctic ice retreat was due to unusual air currents...
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I admit to have missed these posts. Can you provide any pointers?
 
bobdroege7 said:
Also, keep in mind you stated that arctic ice levels are back to normal. Which is all over a number of blogs. But, the chart I posted shows that although the ice areas are back to within the average of the last three years, they are still short of the average for the last 30 years.
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2006 ice-extent was within the average of the last three years, and look what happened to that last summer. Summer 2008 may well see more ice than 2007, but I very much doubt it will see more than 2006.
 
Does HAAP come into weather change? mybe they have switched it off because fuels got to dear.(joke) Seems to me that the whole thing is to panic the human.When you want to yard sheep you chase them around a bit.Old Bob.
 
So each decade is warmer than the previous.

Rationalization by mhaze and David Rodale begins....
 
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