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Should the social sciences actually be called 'sciences'?

You're redefining terms. There is certainly a lack of experimentation in psychology. Animal experiments are only of very limited practical value; while experiments on humans are so limited and restricted as to be of minimal usefulness compared to the experimentation that goes on in other fields. Saying that there is no lack of experimentation because there is some minimal level of experimentation is ridiculous semantic quibbling.


You don't know what you're talking about. Randomized controlled experiments are the stock in trade of experimental psychology. That's why they call it experimental psychology. A Pubmed search for "psychology and randomized controlled trial" returns 50,058 hits.

Partial list of experimental psychology journals:

Journal of Experimental Psychology: General
Journal of Experimental Psychology: Animal Learning and Cognition
Journal of Experimental Psychology: Human Learning and Performance
Journal of Experimental Psychology: Learning, Memory, and Cognition
Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied
Psychological Science
Experimental Psychology
Journal of Experimental Child Psychology
Psychonomic Bulletin and Review
Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology
Psicologia
 
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the proper step in such a situation is to ask for a better explanation, not to try and argue against things I did not say.

Here is a basic description that may help the confusions you seem to be experiencing.

http://www.haspi.org/curriculum-lib...PLETE/01a Scientific Process in Diagnosis.pdf



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=197&pictureid=9736[/qimg]​



Science and engineering do have certain crossover similarities, but medical practice, particularly diagnosis, is a scientific process, not the same as engineering design.

Correct. Wait, when did I say engineering design exactly?

I think all I'm saying is that "using one of many definitions of scientific method" is not "doing science" by any definition we use today.

The reason I brought up engineers is that they do diagnosis all the time, which was what I was talking about in the post. I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or if you changed the topic to design out of confusion.

Your chart does distinguish between medical diagnosis and engineering design. But it can't distinguish between medical diagnosis and engineering diagnosis, which is probably the bulk of what engineers actually do. An example of the latter from my mechanical engineering friend yesterday: step one, Ask A Question - why did this oil storage tank elephant toe? An example from my software engineering friend this morning: step one, Ask A Question - why did the dispatch tool fail to coordinate orders for the same customer/appointment/location?

Back to my original examples... An example from my mechanic last weekend: step one, Ask A Question - why does blutoski's steering wheel vibrate between 60 and 90 kph?

Here's one: my wife's friend is a ghost clearer. A quick review of that flowchart means last weekend's house exorcism was 'doing science'? step one, Ask A Question - Why does the occupant get goosbumps in the kitchen? Dot, dot, dot.

I would say that a definition of 'doing science' that includes an exorcism is not useful.
 
Correct. Wait, when did I say engineering design exactly?

I think all I'm saying is that "using one of many definitions of scientific...

Actually, "design" was more a a slip of the finger/brain rather than any significant, intended distinction.

As you can see from the two flow chart labels - it is demonstrating the distinction between science and engineering processes.

And now that you mention it, what part of engineering doesn't consist of designing? I am rather of the opinion that the only real purpose of engineering is to create functional or improved designs.

but, back to the issue at hand.

Yes, medical diagnoses require the use of scientific methodology and practices which is why it is generally termed a scientific process, engineering may employ the results and findings of scientific research to help design new and/or improved products, but most engineering does not routinely require or employ scientific methodology and practices which is why even most engineers acknowledge that they are not scientists or producing science in their processes of engineering.

The larger issue of whether or not all practicing doctors routinely and regular employ these same levels of scientific rigor in other aspects of their work, I would be willing to cede that this is probably not the case, particularly in some specialty focuses (such as surgery - which is certainly more in line with engineering, IMO). But, diagnosis is a major activity for most doctors. I don't know if I'd go as far as to call all doctors "scientists," but it is such a significant part of medical practice that I'd have a very hard time not qualifying medical practice a scientific field of endeavor. Even most scientists have to write papers, apply for grants, give and attend lectures, often must teach classes, many also engineer the equipment they need to use in their hypothesis testing, etc., but this does not mean that they are not generally engaging in a scientific field of endeavor.
 

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