Good example of misdirection. Shows how strongly the spears are thrust at the wood, not how sharp they are. Carpenters know that dull nails penetrate hard woods (like oak) better than sharp nails (which tend to split the wood). To show how sharp an edge is, show me it cutting something effortlessly, like, say, a piece of fabric falling across the blade or on the point...steenkh said:
FYI, genuine Shaolin monks do not travel around the world doing showcases. They live inside the temple in Henan, China. What you're seeing are martial artists who live around the temple, who probably follows an ex-Shaolin master (or fake), who have shaved their heads, and wore the classic orange shaolin robes.
Even though they're as powerful and skillful as the original monks, they're still not the real mccoy.
One thing that interests me is the guy who can throw a needle through a glass panel (even though it's quite think).
Even though they're as powerful and skillful as the original monks, they're still not the real mccoy.
One thing that interests me is the guy who can throw a needle through a glass panel (even though it's quite think).
Well firstly, the monks inside the temple devote their entire life to the protection, and passing on of the secrets of shaolin martial arts. Some however, choose to go there for several years, learn the secrets, then become bodyguards or masters.
The fact is, only a few of these original monks exist in the world today. And they don't travel the world to showoff or display their skills. They're much more convservative and low profile.
The fact is, only a few of these original monks exist in the world today. And they don't travel the world to showoff or display their skills. They're much more convservative and low profile.
Kevin_Lowe
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sf108 said:
The Shaolin Temple is a theme park run by the Chinese government. The temples that the myths are based on were wiped out ages ago.
The shaolin monks are great acrobats and entertainers, but that's it.
There are no "original monks", unless they are hundreds of years old or something.
I believe the needle-through-glass thing is a conjuring trick, by the way, not a display of martial skill. We don't discuss the details of such things on this forum, by request of Randi, but that's what I'm told.
Assuming no trick photography, we have a picture of a very fit , light, man, held on five objects. One object, held near his centre of mass, is held on a very short grip, to avoid off-centre loading. (wobble). That is sound mechanics, not chi or magic. Whether the centre support is broader than the rest is not clear from the photo- but we know it's not sharp, because he is not bleeding or impaled.
Throwing a needle through a sheet of plywood would be deeply impressive. Throwing a needle through a sheet of glass would be an impossibility.
Throwing a needle through a sheet of plywood would be deeply impressive. Throwing a needle through a sheet of glass would be an impossibility.
Unless it was a really big needle.
It reminds me of the old joke - the pen is mightier than the sword, if it's a really big pen and a really tiny sword.
But seriously are there any links to this alleged needle/glass feat? It sounds really cool, and also impossible.
Edited because I got the joke a bit wrong.
Wudang
BOFH
The Henan Shaolin Temple lost what credibility it had when took money from Doshin So to mount the Nihon Shorinji Kempo placque, lending legitimacy to a claim that was disproved in Japanese courts and which forced the style to add "Nihon" to its name as it's basically jujitsu.
FYI - Shorin is the japanese pronunciation of Shaolin. Hihon Shorinji Kempo translates as Japanese Shaolin Temples Way of the Fist.
FYI - Shorin is the japanese pronunciation of Shaolin. Hihon Shorinji Kempo translates as Japanese Shaolin Temples Way of the Fist.
treble_head
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settle down, kids.
Is it to fantastic to assume that this person is balancing himself on sharp spear points? yes. it certainly is.
Do you imagine you could do that without screaming bloody murder? I doubt it.
I have taken practice arrows and broke them with just my neck. It's simple science. Watch Penn & Teller's Bullsh**t. But, however, I did get to meet and befriend a siaolun (shaolin) monk. He had a waxwood spear and I tried to my own end to break (the point wasn't sharp, but I nearly died trying to break it, to no avail) , and he broke it without a sweat.
People need to stop being skeptical as to what they do and understand that there are people who can do things you could never imagine.
You CAN reform your bones to take a hit. You CAN adjsut your muscles to be less sensitive to pain. I can flip a butterfly knife to no end with my right hand. If I try similar things with my left, I will hold my hand from pain for hours.
Skepticizm is one thing, believe too much in skeptecizm, and you become a nihlist, a la The Big Lebowski. Take a middle path.
Is it to fantastic to assume that this person is balancing himself on sharp spear points? yes. it certainly is.
Do you imagine you could do that without screaming bloody murder? I doubt it.
I have taken practice arrows and broke them with just my neck. It's simple science. Watch Penn & Teller's Bullsh**t. But, however, I did get to meet and befriend a siaolun (shaolin) monk. He had a waxwood spear and I tried to my own end to break (the point wasn't sharp, but I nearly died trying to break it, to no avail) , and he broke it without a sweat.
People need to stop being skeptical as to what they do and understand that there are people who can do things you could never imagine.
You CAN reform your bones to take a hit. You CAN adjsut your muscles to be less sensitive to pain. I can flip a butterfly knife to no end with my right hand. If I try similar things with my left, I will hold my hand from pain for hours.
Skepticizm is one thing, believe too much in skeptecizm, and you become a nihlist, a la The Big Lebowski. Take a middle path.
Re: settle down, kids.
I think treble head you need to realise that many of these amazing alleged martial arts abilities are actually trickery, misdirection and clever use of physics.
BTW it's spelt 'scepticism' or 'skepticism'.
I don't really understand this post. You can't train your skin to be puncture proof. You can toughen it in places with callouses but you can see that isn't the case here.treble_head said:
I think treble head you need to realise that many of these amazing alleged martial arts abilities are actually trickery, misdirection and clever use of physics.
BTW it's spelt 'scepticism' or 'skepticism'.
crimresearch
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sf108 said:
Mmmm..sorry, no.
The Chinese government realized quite some time ago that a profitable idea would be to run the temple as a performance for tourists.
No secrets, no masters, no original monks, no hidden indoor training...just employees putting on a show.
As far as the original picture, Claus is again just trolling his woo-woo....the mechanics of that sort of 'Iron Shirt' have been discussed here before...it is body training and physics to create an illusion.
The center spear (remember we don't know the actual shape) is apparently made of wood alright. Three assumptions support this conclusion:
1) There's no highlights on the center spear. It should've been dark-grey when the highlights are missing, not brown.
2) None of the other spears are reflecting colors, although at least one of them is held in - somewhat - the same angle.
3) Notice the guy who's supporting the (wooden) spear with his hands, while none of the other spears is supported in that manner. Why? To make sure it doesn't break over, because most of the weight is placed there and it is made of wood?
Hmmm.. Hard to conclude with nothing but an image, but it certainly looks like a wooden performance.
1) There's no highlights on the center spear. It should've been dark-grey when the highlights are missing, not brown.
2) None of the other spears are reflecting colors, although at least one of them is held in - somewhat - the same angle.
3) Notice the guy who's supporting the (wooden) spear with his hands, while none of the other spears is supported in that manner. Why? To make sure it doesn't break over, because most of the weight is placed there and it is made of wood?
Hmmm.. Hard to conclude with nothing but an image, but it certainly looks like a wooden performance.
crimresearch said:
I never said there was hidden indoor training. Yes, there are original monks. I'm referring to "original" as in they're not posers of Shaolin kungfu. I've seen a documentary on ABC about the Shaolin temple. Only a dozen or so real monks live there at the moment. Some practicing kungfu, some practicing religion only.
There are many schools of outside the temple claiming to teach Shaolin. Whether by real or posers, I don't know.
If you want more info. u can go to Raffi's site:
http://www.beijingwushuteam.com/articles/shaolintour.html
I've personally been to 2 Shaolin shows. All were impressive. One was the Wheel of Life that is showing everywhere. I know a kungfu master who told me those shows aren't real Shaolin monks. Just posers trying to make money using Shaolin marketing.
crimresearch
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Well, reading Raffi's site that you linked to, he seems to agree with me that the people inside the temple are not 'real' Shaolin monks any more than those outside are, on many levels.
And I'm not really in a position to comment on their religiosity.
Also, it is correct that the shows put on under the name of Shaloin can rise to impressive levels of entertainment.
I am just highly skeptical that any of it is useful martial arts of the type practiced there even a couple of centuries ago.
And I'm not really in a position to comment on their religiosity.
Also, it is correct that the shows put on under the name of Shaloin can rise to impressive levels of entertainment.
I am just highly skeptical that any of it is useful martial arts of the type practiced there even a couple of centuries ago.
I suppose someone would have to explain to me why this is so *fantasically amazing* as to warrant any discussion at all.
Is anyone suggesting that there's anything special, paranormal, supernatural, or chi-filled mega-woo-woo going on here?
Can most people do this? No.
Can most people run the 100-meter in under 10 seconds? No.
Can most people twist themselves the way the contortionists in Cirque du Soleil do? No.
The guy's got a specialized skill. Big whoop.
- Timothy
Is anyone suggesting that there's anything special, paranormal, supernatural, or chi-filled mega-woo-woo going on here?
Can most people do this? No.
Can most people run the 100-meter in under 10 seconds? No.
Can most people twist themselves the way the contortionists in Cirque du Soleil do? No.
The guy's got a specialized skill. Big whoop.
- Timothy
thaiboxerken
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sf108 said:
LMAO!!! The Shaolin Monk nonsense is as credible as the Japanese Ninja nonsense. Both are groups of people that became extinct many, many years ago. They've been reborn from myths and vague history and are not great marketing schemes.
You really shouldn't take what you see on TV as factual information, CTV hosts "psychic detectives" after all.
Timothy said:
Some people do believe that these guys actually is inspired by higher forces etc etc., and skeptics aim to eliminate baloney.
In this thread? I don't think so, but people are curious to find a plausible explanation which goes further than "specialized skill".
I personally don't think it's a very specialized skill if the setup is what it appears to be - a guy basically resting on a piece of wood.